any tips for patterns ?

Discussion in 'Taekwondo Patterns' started by michael mckenna, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. michael mckenna

    michael mckenna Active Member

    i practice each of my patterns 10 times a day in my garden i use a tea towel as a marker for accuracy but i keep being a little too far away from my mark i only do it with longer patterns doing chon ji is fine as there isnt alot of distance in the pattern but with the likes of yol gok or joong gun i am atleast a ft too far from it. any help and advice would be great
  2. Master Fahy

    Master Fahy Active Member

    If you do the forms correctly, like proper stances you should be on the mark. Make sure your doing the right stance. Master Fahy
    Josh likes this.
  3. Anthony Hayward

    Anthony Hayward Active Member

    Study the movements in the patterns.. I.e how it is written, the positions of the feet etc. Make sure you are doing the stances in the patterns correctly I.e. length, width, weight distribution etc.
    Make sure that when you pivot around you use the ball of the foot and not the heel. A lot of people do this and don't finish in the right position because of this.

    Are you doing the pressing blocks in Joong-Gun in a low stance?? most people do these in a walking stance which is shorter than the low stance..
    In Yul-Gok you are possibly doing the inner forearm block walking stances on the wrong angle... check this.

    Make sure you are doing proper length stances going up and going back.. needs to be consistant all the way through.

    It is quite an art to finish where you have started but once you work out what you are doing wrong you can adjust accordingly.
    I know a lot of people have problems with Do-San Pattern. This is due to the angle they face when they do the wedging blocks. Adjust your angle accordingly.

    Chris J and Josh like this.
  4. asphalt666

    asphalt666 New Member

    All that was said previously makes absolute sense. From what I can see with our students here, what causes this is most of the time only that the stances are not always the same length, for example, if your Apkubi is a tiny bit longer or wider when the left leg is at front than when it is the right leg than you'll be offset. If that is your issue then I'd recommend maybe trying your patterns at a slow pace (kinda like Taichi ) and paying particular attention to all of your position (and your moves while you're at it), then when everything fits you can gradually move back to normal pace.
  5. Anthony Hayward

    Anthony Hayward Active Member

    Yes good advice.. You could try practicing the pattern just doing the feet movements.. I.e. put your hands behind your back and step out the pattern.. Make marker points part way through. This way your full concentration will be on the feet and not the hands..
    Tae Kwon
    Josh likes this.
  6. Josh

    Josh New Member

    While preparing for a black belt test, my instructor made us do exactly what Mr. Hayward suggested- bind your hands, only walk through the movements (He got some chuckles as we all paused when there was suppose to be a hand strike, he could see us thinking about it, trying to resist the urge to use the hands...) :)
  7. Oerjan

    Oerjan Active Member

    It is related to what has been said of focusing on Your stance, but in some forms where you kick once With each leg without pause (e. g. the turning kicks in Hwarang or the two side kicks in Taegeuk Sa (4) Jang) where you put Your kicking leg Down is key. When teaching Taegeuk Sa (4) Jang I am always amazed at how many People who insert an extra stance between the side kicks instead of putting the foot Down just in front of the non kicking leg and kick again With the other leg. I have seen People going in to L-Stance (back stance or dwit koobi) and long front walking stance etc. This insertion of an extra stance makes you end up in the wrong Place at the end of the form.

    Also you have some forms that are "poorly designed" when it comes to ending up on the same spot as you started. I do not know the Chang Hon forms well enough to say if there are any such instances in them.

    Turning on the ball of the feet instead of the heel, correct stances and same length on both feet as well as front and back is usually enough to get to the same spot:)
  8. GreywulfTKD

    GreywulfTKD Member

    Michael, all these guys are giving good advice, but remember that you're never going to end in the perfect spot/the spot you're theoretically supposed to end on. We are all built a little differently, and depending on where we are doing our forms, our stance placement will vary slightly. Foot placement is important, but I wouldn't worry too much if you end in an area that isn't perfect.
  9. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Perhaps true for Taegeuk Il Jang, which seems almost impossible to get back to the spot on, unless you fudge some of the turns a bit.

    Matters if you are going to compete in WTF sanctioned Poomsae competition, otherwise it is still a factor but must not be exact.
  10. Oerjan

    Oerjan Active Member

    The number one reason for the forms ending up in (about) the same spot as you started is to conserve training Space. It is simply a practical use of training Space both when you are alone training and when in a Group setting. The overly focus on getting on the EXACT same spot did not occur until competition focus increased. You are meant to come back to the same spot (or very near at least) because if you end up in an entirely different Place you are obviously doing something wrong..

    In Kukkiwon Taekwondo Poomsae Taegeuk Il (1) Jang and Taegeuk Pal (8) Jang are two forms that are in my eyes "poorly" designed if the goal is to come back at the exact same spot. In Taegeuk Il(1) Jang the Width of the stances and the fact that you turn on the balls of the feet make it impossible to come back at the exact same spot (I actually used a measuring tape and a partner to find this out once and for all.).

    In Taegeuk Pal (8) Jang at the top of the "Gwe" you do a mountain Block and uppercut punch, then you do a cross stance and then move out to the side and do a mountain Block and uppercut punch. This sideways movement is never adjusted in the Poomsae so you end up a little to the side of where you started. Two ways to "fix" this is to do the jumping kicks a little diagonally or to "cheat" when moving back and do the way back to the starting point a little diagonally. Some also use a Shorter long front walking stance to the one side when they are back at the aproximatly right spot so they end up at the exact same Place.

    Again if you do the form correctly 100% (no cheating) you will miss Your starting mark a little With both Taegeuk Il (1) Jang and Taegeuk Pal(8) Jang and it is not even the students fault but the designer(s) of the form.

    This does not make the Poomsae bad or worse than other forms, it is just that the designer(s) of those two forms did not focus enough on that criteria (ending up on the exact same spot). The reason I bring this up is that it is possible that similar designing "flaws" might exist in the Chang Hon forms too.
  11. Mario Ray Mahardhika

    Mario Ray Mahardhika Active Member

    I usually cheated in the cross stance, by not really crossing the feet but rather make both feet in-line, so both mountain block + uppercut are mirrored at center.
  12. GreywulfTKD

    GreywulfTKD Member

    Certainly it is a factor. As much as I love a good poomsae, I'm personally not interested in any WTF competitions. My interest lies in application. Yet utter perfection of every aspect of poomsae (stance/step consistency here being the main concern) is in itself most definitely an admirable pursuit.
  13. michael mckenna

    michael mckenna Active Member

    just recorded myself doing my chang hon patterns gonna upload them soon tomorrow when my internet is faster going to be from chon ji to joong gun
    Ivor and Anthony Hayward like this.
  14. Ivor

    Ivor Member

    its probably just length / width of stances, slow the pattern down and perform it in a relaxed manner whilst concentrating on the legwork, i can remember being asked by another student and my instructor how i got back to the correct spot - although i couldnt say how i did it i was able to demonstrate (i remember showing them in the carpark in the rain after the lesson using a leaf as the start point) i think you need to concentrate on the getting the walking stances on the elbow strikes and the twin punches long enough (i assume you go past the start point when you finish the pattern?) as this always seems to be the problem, can you use a smaller target as the start point to force you to be even more accurate? good luck :) i hope this helps

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