Ap-seogi (Walking stance) - move one step forward or backward?

Discussion in 'General Taekwondo Discussions' started by Phally, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. Phally

    Phally New Member

    Dear all, I am a bit co fused. I am a bleue belt taekwondo student and I would like to have your advice about the meaning of Ap-seogi. What is the correct way to execute this basic stance, one step forward or one step backward? Thank you in advance for your responses.
  2. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Hi, welcome.

    Ap means forward or front.

    Seogi means stance.

    It is possible to walk forward or backward using Ap seogi.

    The "Ap" refers rather to where your center of gravity it in relation to your feet. It should be very slightly more over the front leg than the back leg.

    The following definitions apply to Kukkiwon TKD and WT Poomsae Competition.

    The front foot points forward, the back foot out at 15-30 degrees. The inner sides of your heels should both be on the same line.

    There should be one of your own "foot lengths" between the toes of the back foot and the heel of the front foot.

    It's pretty much your natural walking step. When moving and turning in Apseogi, rotation should always be on the ball of the foot sole, and not the heel.

    That's everything about that stance. Did it answer your question? Is anything unclear? Let me know!

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
  3. dvcochran

    dvcochran New Member

    Gnarlie, for clarification, is what you described above for a walking stance? I understand you referenced WT/Kukkiwon, but the narrowness in your description sounds like a walking stance instead of a full front stance. An example would be seen in the contrast between a walking stance and a front stance in a Taeguek Poomsae.
    I started in Moo Duk Kwan TKD and we added the WT/Kukkiwon curriculum in the early 80's. A traditional Ap Seogi would be as wide as your shoulders and 1 1/2 to 2 shoulder deep.
  4. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Kukkiwon/WT Apseogi is as I described, as used in the first movement of Taegeuk 1 Jang.

    I don't use English language terminology as it is ambiguous. I don't know what walking stance means.

    What you have described sounds more like Apgubi (as seen in movements 5 & 6, 11 & 12, 17 & 18 of Taegeuk 1 Jang). Ap meaning front, gubi meaning inflection or emphasis.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
  5. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

  6. dvcochran

    dvcochran New Member

    That picture is a classic walking stance. Short, less than shoulder width, front knee Not bent. There are always teaching differences but if memory serves, think of the difference in stance from the first line to the third line of Taeguek 1. However, I do see some do all the front stance moves in a "walking" ap seogi.
  7. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    There is no difference between the first and third line of Taegeuk 1. They are all apseogi as in the picture.

    Apgubi is used to go forward from line 1 to line 2, and 2 to 3, and from 3 to 2 to 1 back to the start. Everything to the left or right is apseogi.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    Mario Ray Mahardhika likes this.
  8. dvcochran

    dvcochran New Member

    There are not a ton of references to ap gubi with the exception of Youtube videos referring to Taeguek poomsae. For the most part gubi and seogi are somewhat interchangeable terms, at least in translation. Ap seogi and ap gubi are both used in relation to front stance.
    It gets into the grey area of regional translation I think. There are tons of reference to walking stance, but again it is often translated from ap seogi. I do see Kukkiwon reference ap gubi when displaying a walking stance in the 1st and 3rd lines of Taeguek 1 and ap seogi stance in the line transition movements you mentioned above.
  9. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Try the Kukkiwon website.
    No, they are not at all interchangeable if you understand Korean.
    It gets in to the grey area of translation being correct or incorrect.
    I wouldn't have this problem as my instructor is Korean and teaches in Korean.
    The above is the wrong way round. I'd like you to provide a link to any credible reference that says that.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
  10. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    It's Taegeuk, by the way, not Taeguek. Spelling the romanisation correctly will give you different options for searching purposes. 태극 Tae Geuk.

    앞구비 Ap Gu Bi

    앞서기 Ap So Gi

    Try copy pasting the Hangul into Google Image Search and you will get correct pics of the stances.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
  11. dvcochran

    dvcochran New Member

    Our teacher is full Korean; GM Shin, Seoung Eui in Nashville, TN (mastershinonline). There are a Lot of Korean Instructors out there so this is not unique. I have a decent understanding of Korean language and it's technical terms.
    I asked GM Shin this question directly and he said they Are interchangeable, exchanged in different parts of the country.

    Search 20 TKD school websites with Korean instructor's and you will get a mixed bag of translations, largely based on geography, and the translation itself.
    You are correct that it gubi is referenced on the Kukkiwon website and corresponding videos. Beyond that it is not a heavily used term.
    In stricter terms, mainly within WT/Kukkiwon teaching, gubi is used to reference a walking stance (like in Taegeuk 1) and seogi is used for all other stances, including ap seogi.
    Again, there is a generous amount of interpretation and regionalism as to how the terms are used.
  12. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Couple of points:

    1) Gubi is also used in Dwigubi, meaning "rear / backward emphasis", commonly translated as back stance.

    2) I've trained pretty much all over South Korea. You'd be hard pushed to find anything other than Kukkiwon TKD in South Korea, other than a few isolated outliers. All of the places I have trained at, and all of the exchange visitors I have worked with from Paju to Busan use Apgubi to mean a long stance with the front knee bent and the back leg straight, and Apseogi to mean a short stance as I previously showed in a picture. The terms are not interchangeable in South Korean Taekwondo when using the Korean language. They have a very specific meaning. It is only when the terms are translated that confusion arises. Which is why we don't translate.

    3) The Kukkiwon terminology is the official terminology of South Korean Taekwondo. People using other terminology are just either out of date, or practicing some splinter offshoot of so called "traditional" taekwondo in the West. There's no problem with that, but I do not accept that the terms are interchangeable based on location, at least not in Korea, as that is patently not the case when training there.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
  13. dvcochran

    dvcochran New Member

    I stand corrected; it did swap terms in writing my previous post. However, the terms do seem to be interchangeable.
  14. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    How and where? Certainly not in Korea.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Share This Page