Black Belt Magazine Article- Doug Cook on Hyung/Poomsae/Tul

Discussion in 'General Taekwondo Discussions' started by John Hulslander, Sep 19, 2015.

  1. John Hulslander

    John Hulslander Active Member

    There is a pretty good article in the October Black Belt Magazine by Doug Cook about forms. It is not up on their site yet, but I expect it to be there in a month or so.

    Crux is the history of modern forms. It talks about borrowing forms from Shotokan, and the need to have their own forms.

    Then it talk about the creation of the ITF forms and briefly (Master Cook is not in ITF) talks about the wave theory in the ITF forms.
    It also talks about giving up the Palgwe forms for the Taeguks, and why, and a bit of history of the black belt forms.

    Two passages I thought I would share. They are the only passages where the author injects his opinion on the practice of modern Taekwondo.

    "Today, the forms that Korean stylists are required to learn vary greatly from organizationto organization and school to school. Based on the 1970s edict by Kukkiwon that the taegeuk series should eclipse the palgwe series completely, a vast majority of mastor instructors sadly jettisoned the latter in favor of the former. Likewise, the original iteration of koryo was replaced by the radically different version currently sanctioned by the WTF, Kukkiwon and KTA."

    Here he talk about giving up on the first series of forms. We have not adopted the Taegyuk forms for now. I do not think our GM will ever do this. His rationale is that he likes the forms with the deeper stances that require greater technical ability. (in his estimation)

    The second passage to share sums up one of the great debates in modern Taekwondo-

    "The pratice of forms is a double-edged sword: Forfeiting poomsae altogether in favor of strategies that focus on sparring represents a tragedy of grand proportions because it denies the practitioner a chance to experience the myriad benefits associated with the process (emphasis mine) Likewise, attempting to master every pattern in taekwondo could be equally injurious to one's martial education because an in-depth analysis of the practical applications of so many forms would require many lifetimes. As Funakoshi was fond of saying, "The old masters used to keep a narrow field but plow a deep furrow""

    Again this passage in many ways reflects the deeply held beliefs of my gm.

    Thank you for your time.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
  2. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    The sine wave was given a good description back in a book in the 50's. Get Jack Dempsey's boxing book (it is in a free PDF on the net) and read up on the falling step. It is a simple principle that the sine wave is very similar to.

    Note to members applying the -nim to the end of their names. That is totally improper and, if I recall correctly, very rude to do. Is is akin to calling yourself "Sir" or "Ma'am". An honourific is NEVER, EVERY applied to yourself.
  3. John Hulslander

    John Hulslander Active Member

    Thank your for the bit on the Dempsey book.
    Honorific edited.
  4. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Not strictly true, my GM signs off his emails to me with 'your sabeomnim'. He is Korean.

    Korean titles and honorific rules are not as prescriptive as you are making them out to be. Especially not in writing.

    Respectfully, perhaps it might be an idea to learn more on the topic before running around correcting people online.

    On topic, I try to practice the Taegeuk, Palgwe and Chang Hon forms as regularly as I can. And I agree that the process of learning is partly where the value is. I also see value in perfoming patterns when you already feel you know them well.
  5. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    My information is from etiquette study and being informed, on Facebook, about using kyosunim after my name. The person who informed my on the correctness was (Grandmaster) Inwan Kim. To an honourific (especially -nim (Japanese equivalent is -sama)), as it is for highly respected individuals) for yourself is highly arrogant.
  6. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    As I have said before, the Korean language and behaviour regarding respect is highly complex and extremely context specific.

    Maybe spend a little more time around Korean people, speaking the language, and perhaps even spend some time living in Korea before broad brush applying a rule based on an isolated mistake you made yourself in specific circumstances.

    Running around as a non-Korean correcting people as if you know the score, especially correcting those senior to you both in age and you view that as more, or less arrogant than using an honorific after your own name?
  7. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    My information is from etiquette study and being informed, on Facebook, about using kyosunim after my name. The person who informed my on the correctness was (Grandmaster) Inwan Kim. To an honourific (especially -nim (Japanese equivalent is -sama)), as it is for highly respected individuals) for yourself is highly arrogant. Also, you cannot use honourifics because your standing and rank is not higher or lower than you are.

    "Nim (님): Reserved for anyone of a higher station than the speaker, or those whom the speaker holds in high regard. For example, students may call their upperclassmen Seonbae-nim. It may be dropped if the parties involved are close enough that such formalities are unnecessary, such as with family and close friends. However, this honorific is mandatory for the formal use of the word Seonsaeng: Seonseang-nim is respectful, but just Seonsaeng is considered (in some cases) very rude. "

    For those who wish to understand the ideas behind the Korean titles and honourifics so you never make errors:

    Generic honorifics

    • Si (씨; pronounced shee): When appended to a full name or personal name, it indicates that the speaker considers the speakee to be of the same or a higher social level than themselves, and is most commonly used to refer to strangers or acquaintances. When appended to a surname, it indicates that the speaker considers themselves to be of a higher station than the speakee, and has a "distant" connotation that is considered rude if applied to elders.
    • Gun (군): Used in the same context as Si but applied to unmarried men/male minors only.
    • Yang (양): Used in the same context as Si but applied to unmarried women/female minors only.
    • Seonsaeng (선생): Very respectful, commonly translated as master or teacher. On its own, it is applied to doctors and teachers. Shares the same Chinese characters as the Japanese word sensei.
    • Gwiha (귀하): Reserved for letters and messages, when referring to the recipient. Dropped for informal situations. Roughly translates to Your honored self.
    • Gakha (각하): Reserved for high-ranking government officials, including the president. Equivalent to His Excellency. This honorific is no longer used in the Republic of Korea (South Korea) nowadays as it is the equivalent of the Japanese honorific Gakka and considered an unpleasant reminder of the Japanese rule.
    • Seonbae (선배): Used in a company for senior employees, or in schools for those in higher classes. May be used as both an honorific and a title. Equivalent to Japanese -senpai.
    • Hubaei (후배): Junior; may be used as an honorific or a title. Equivalent to Japanese -kohai.
    • Junha (전하): Archaic honorific from the Choson dynasty, used to refer to a King. Usually translated His Majesty. It is honorific for a king, but it is less dignified than Pyeha (폐하), which is an imperial honorific.
    • Pyeha (폐하): His Imperial Majesty. Honorific specific for an emperor.
    • Jeoha (저하): His Royal Highnesss. Specific honorific for the crown prince.
    • Hapha (합하): His Highness, His Serene Highness, or His Grace. Honorific for very high ranking officials and high nobility, such as a prime minister or a close royal relative (say, an uncle of the king). Increasingly uncommon even on Korean historical dramas these days.
    • Nari (나리 or 나으리): Archaic honorific from the Choson dynasty. Used by commoners to refer to nobles below the king. Equivalent of His Lordship or His Honor.
    • Dongmu (동무; "Tongmu" according to the McCune-Reischauer transliteration used in North Korea): The Korean equivalent to the word "comrade". In North Korea, just like in the Soviet Union and many other Eastern Bloc countries, this word replaced most of the existing titles and honorifics as a standard form of address meaning "fellow revolutionary", whereas in the South it has mostly gone out of use due to its association with the Dirty Communists.
    • Dongji or Tongji (동지): There are two separate terms used for "comrade" in North Korea. Dongji is used to address someone with a higher standing, while Dongmu is someone with equal or lower standing. So, Kim Il Sung would never be a Dongmu, but always a Dongji.
  8. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Totally off topic. How about contributing something more relevant to the thread?
  9. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  10. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    How do I edit my username, sir?

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