Do NOT Punch In A Street Fight

Discussion in 'Self Defense' started by Kevin, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. Joel

    Joel New Member

    I agree with no punching on a street fight unless you are sure to land it properly. Vital points of the body don't need a lot of pressure. One time I had to fight 5 guys defending my family and my TKD Kicks were effective enough and I didn't have to use my hands for striking just to deflect or takedowns. I prefer to avoid conflict at all times but there is sometimes when you have no choice but to fight.
     
  2. Taekwonpro

    Taekwonpro New Member

    Depends on where you punch. Punching to the head or any area above the chest is a bad idea.

    However, punching to the lower body is highly effective. Liver shots, kidney shots, going to the floating ribs, etc etc.

    To those who are saying that they would knife hand instead, remember that a proper knife hand requires quite a bit of a wind up ( compared to a punch or palm hand strike) and tends to telegraph the attack. However, there are probably people that can pull it off.
     
  3. lorraine

    lorraine Member

    Yes i agree , punching to specific areas like the kidneys and floating ribs is very effective and at a good club you would learn all that in one step. I ts always with every technique important to use hip power and use both arms in all your blocking and punching .
     
  4. GizmoDuck1833

    GizmoDuck1833 New Member

    thas because most if not all of you are missing a vital part of training for full contact, hard body training; whichwill help prevent ANY injury from a fight and is ESCENTIAL to power breaking which breaking concrete is no matter how you look at it.
     
  5. Taekwonpro

    Taekwonpro New Member


    The forehead is the hardest part of the body. Even most conditioned hands will break against it, it is harder than concrete.

    "whichwill help prevent ANY injury from a fight"

    It won't protect from chokes, groin kicks, strikes to the nose, and kicks to the knees. Those areas can't be conditioned.


    Conditioning the body is good, but more emphasis should still be laid on simple and fast strikes that are perfected.

    I've gone through body conditioning, it's good, but not a means to all ends.
     
    Ivor likes this.
  6. Nathaniel Flamm

    Nathaniel Flamm New Member

    I feel like if you know HOW to punch, and WHERE. It can still be very effective...
     
  7. tigerfitness

    tigerfitness New Member

    you should never stand and fight! we as martial artists have an obligation to only use what we know when absolutely necessary, what we know is potentialy lethal, people in street fights have more often than not never stepped foot in a dojang and have no idea what they are doing. we should only use our skills to protect ourselves and others in trouble not to hurt some one, our goal should be to defuse the situation as safely and as quickly possible using reasonable force. do not strike unless there is no other option!

    if you have to strike I find a front push kick (or teep if your a Thai boxer) is best as a taekwondo practitioner, as more often than not we are wearing cloths that potentialy will restrict other techniques, its quick to execute, quite powerful and gives you plenty of space to get a away and alert authoritys.
     
  8. bowlie

    bowlie Well-Known Member

    im not sure about thins. in some cases yes, in others you are giving them your leg and its a very compromising position. as for not punching, i really dont see why this man has the authority to say that. what credentials does he have? sure, you might break your hand in a fight, but thast better than having your head stomped on. your first instinct should be to unload a world of pain on your attacker as quickly as possible and open a way for you to escape.

    Its true if you hit someones head its gunna hurt, but i dont beleive him when he says most people will put their head down, you should see the trouble that boxing coaches go to to teach people that. get someone is a soft spot, the nose, the eye, cheek, ear and its still effective. I have to say though im skeptical about the idea of self defense as a concept. It seems to be how to fight dirty, but how can you fight dirty without knowing how to fight? the best defense isnt knowing a few wrist holds / headlock escapes, its in being stronger, faster and more powerful than your opponent, while having a good understanding of the fundamentals of fighting.
     
  9. Chris J

    Chris J Active Member

    A flurry of straight punches delivered at 6-8 per second will put almost anyone on the back foot, and set them up nicely for a kick to the thigh or abdomen. Keep moving forward, someone has to go defensive....may as well be them!
    My record for continuous punching is 120 in 15 sec.
     
  10. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Active Member

    I would not take too much stock in what the guy in the video says, he is probably referring to unskilled people, he also mentions using a gun or knife wtf? Martial artist who specialize in self defence will condition their fists so that they can punch properly without breaking their hands. Punch someone in the forehead with a conditioned fist and you may bruise your knuckles but they will get a concussion. A punch is the most basic technique and very useful for self defence. You are just as likely to damage your hand with a palm strike as you are with a punch, especially if you are slightly off target and hit with your fingers instead of your palm.
     
    GreywulfTKD likes this.
  11. bowlie

    bowlie Well-Known Member

  12. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    i think i would still go with punching, i donlt do breaking so much anymore but i would take punching of a palm strike. maybe becasue of habit more than anything else.

    for punches to be effective however you really need to put time in training without gloves. i remember years ago i went ot train with a friend at his karate dojo. the trained bare knuckle and i found myself holding my fist way too loose co s i was too used to training with gloves.

    the way you train certainly will be the way you fight,
     
  13. Bochica

    Bochica Member

    Hi folks,

    I have worked in the bar industry for 15 years, and have managed some dodgy venues that seem to breed idiots with something to prove.

    I have never punched an assailant, I have slapped some though.

    I have always stayed calm and assertive, but when it has escalated i have simply stepped out to reach which puts the other off balance, then shove or strike. It does not even in my opinion need to be hard, as there will be a point where they think oh s#%t.

    They then tend to stay away.

    I have never gone to the floor with someone, as this leaves you vulnerable to attack from others.

    I have only restrained a couple of times, only when it is safe to do so. I refrain from it if I can, as a dear friend restrained someone in his local shop that was being robbed.

    Whilst in a headlock, the robber had his hands free to take a knife from his pocket and stab my friend in the kidneys. He passed away on the way to hospital.
     
  14. Nightwing

    Nightwing Member

    This is why in Karate, where the straight punch is king, they develop there hands with MAKIWARA training in order to condition them for these sorts of impacts. Old school bare knuckle boxers used to "pickle" there fists "whatever that means"; old dude in "Knuckle" irish bareknuckle boxing documentary said he soaked his fists in diesel fuel before his fights. In the Encyclopedia of Taekwon-do they have an entire section on weapons (attacking surface) conditioning saying something like "student of TKD who doesn't train in conditioning is hitting his opponent with cotton balls instead of fists' (paraphrased from memory).

    However, with that said most martial arts follow the "soft to hard, hard to soft," approach to striking. For example palm heel to chin, fist to stomach (straight "punch")- Ball of the foot for temple, instep or shin for neck (turn kick). What's important isn't which method you chose to follow (conditioning or soft/hard) but that you realize that if your not going to condition your fists then DO NOT TRAIN TO PUNCH PEOPLE IN THE FACE WITH THEM!

    *Far to many martial artists train and train and train without every realizing this. If your not going to condition your or your students fists then they can NEVER be allowed, in either daily training or competition to strike to their opponents face with them.
     
  15. bowlie

    bowlie Well-Known Member

    ^^ the only downside of that kind of conditioning is alot of karate masters have terrible terrible arthritis in their hands. I would rather just use gloves to train with and hope im never stupid enough to get in a street fight. Also, body shots are very effective in street fights, as most people seem to think they are about head hunting.
     
  16. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Active Member

    I just saw one of his videos entitled how to knock someone out with one punch to the head, I wish he would make up his mind.
     
    GreywulfTKD likes this.
  17. NoBullShitFighting

    NoBullShitFighting Active Member

    Punching is okay if the person has experience, toughened arm and good form. My argument against it is that it is a pretty high risk move. There are moves that can be executed in pretty much the same scenario as many people would automaticly punch with lower risk and equal reward. Like a palm strike, quick low kick or a really good slap. My argument for it is the clinched fist protects the fingers from bending backwards if the aggressor moves towards you and it is probably more second nature than other moves for a fighter. One has to use what one have in the can, it is to late to become a different type of fighter right then and there, so often it is better to just really go hard out with what is already learned and good habit.

    Also, if it is a streetfight pinching is a very underrated move. A woman who was attacked by a rapist pinched his arm and was actually able to tear out some of his muscle fibers along with the skin, just an ordinary girl with no fighting experience. I am also a big fan of the chop to the neck, I used it in a streetfight and I was very impressed, I didn't know you could drop a guy immediately by just one chop to the neck.

    What are your opinions on the fingerjab? It is too fast to block and doesn't telegraph. However, if it goes wrong you risk hyperextending your fingers.
     
  18. NoBullShitFighting

    NoBullShitFighting Active Member

    Yes, I also reacted to that one. In police academy you learn that in order to get out a gun and shoot an attacker you need a very long distance to do so safely, I don't remember the specifics, but I believe it was 5-8 seconds, that is a pretty good distance of space between an attacker and a cop. However, where the weapon is carried on the body makes a big difference. On the inside of the jacket is alot faster than by the hip in a buttoned holster.

    In an exercise on police academy they go in and ask a guy for ID papers. The guy then suprize attacks them by taking out a knife of his jacket when reaching for papers. All the students would have died if it was a real life situation as they didn't have enough distance.
     
  19. Blue_Knight

    Blue_Knight Active Member

    I agree with you 100% RTKDCMB. This advice is for unskilled people who don't know how to punch correctly. In my entire career as an Instructor, I have never heard any Taekwondo Masters advise against punching in a street fight, and many (myself included) have had plenty of real world experience. The only risk to breaking hand bones with a punch is for children, some women with more frail bone structure, unskilled novice who punch wrong, or by fluke (in which anything can happen with any technique). Among those who study Martial Art systems that teach striking correctly (Karate, Taekwondo, etc.), we all do enough conditioning that would prepare the hand without causing health issues or arthritis (those are extreme cases), and it is relatively safe to punch through two or three pine boards without breaking bones when taught to punch correctly (by Taekwondo method). That is enough force to damage any human target. For most high geup color belts and low Dan Black belts, punching an opponent's face in a street fight poses virtually no risk at all. Our training teaches to be fast, accurate, and skilled at hitting precisely the desired target, and do damage to various bones of the face with the fore-knuckles.

    It is true that Boxers, and competitors who only train to fight with wrist supports, hand wraps, and padded gloves might likely injure themselves if they actually hit a hard surface without the gloves, but these are not Martial Artists in my view. We train to fight in the street, and we train to punch correctly without gloves or wrist wraps more often than we spar with gloves. When I want to compete, or train hard for self defense with safety for my partner, we put on gloves, headgear, chest protector, and other pads, but that is to prevent injury to the person getting hit - - not the person punching. We spend more time being able to punch without gloves and without injuring our fist. That is what training and proper instruction is for.

    For most of us adult males who have been training in striking arts for more than a decade, it is not a concern, and I wouldn't hesitate to match my knuckle punch against any part of any attackers head, skull, or any bone in the human body. As hard as the head can be, the least that would happen is they would be knocked unconscious - - and most likely, they would have a crack in the skull with internal hemorrhaging (anyone who wants to test that theory, I can tap a punch on your head and keep hitting harder and harder until one says 'uncle' and I bet it won't be me! :) ).

    For most skilled students, it is easy enough to avoid the hardest part of the skull if they want, and only strike with punches to the various targets of the face and body. The other strikes (palm, knife, ridge-hand, back-fist, etc.) are fine and should be used in combination, but certainly and absolutely NOT as a substitute for punching.

    Blue Knight
     
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  20. bowlie

    bowlie Well-Known Member

    I don't understand how people are still debating this. The guy in the video is a moron. Our fists are genetically designed to punch with. There is a small chance of breaking it, but even so, you wont feel it. I dislocated my shoulder in a competition, had a break, put it back in and carried on the fight. the video is on youtube and it makes me feel sick to watch. You just dont feel pain when you are pumped up on adrenaline, and if you come out of the fight with just your hand broken, its a pretty good outcome
     
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