Fake Certificates

Discussion in 'General Taekwondo Discussions' started by Mick King, May 18, 2012.

  1. Mick King

    Mick King Member

    I have noticed that there seems to be alot of these floating around now even on ebay,why would anyone want one? if someone comes to me claiming to be a black belt Kukkiwon we check there number on the Kukkiwon dan checker its a shame you cannot trust people on face value. If someone comes to us with no certificates and is honest about it I would help them, but not when they claim to be 3rd dans and they do not have the standard of first dan which has happened.Maybe its an ego thing but not fair to the students who have worked hard to get where they are, there cannot be shortcuts.
     
    lorraine likes this.
  2. Tony Butcher

    Tony Butcher Member

    Hi Mick, where is the Kukkiwon dan checker? I've had a brief look on the Kukkiwon website, but can't see it.
     
  3. Mick King

    Mick King Member

    Hi Tony its on the left hand side poom /dan checker you need nationality, date of birth and correct spelling of name or you can google it to the same site. No one will refuse if they are legit.
     
  4. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan New Member

    Go to the left hand column. About midway down, you'll see a bar that says 'One stop service.' Click that and a menu will drop down, with first selection being "Check for poom/dan."
     
  5. Barry Ballard

    Barry Ballard New Member

    I am afraid your correct. There are indeed, many fake certificates ou there. You can be any rank you choose if you can find a fancy enough certifcate. To myself, it comes down to integrity. Why pretend to be something your not. To the trained eye, however, you can tell who has been training for many years.
    How they walk. Their demeanor. The condition of their knuckles. How they carry themselves.

    Deception has away of turning on you.
     
  6. Kevin

    Kevin Administrator Staff Member

    I fail to see any benefit to doing this as the minute you start training in a class people will see how good you are. Definitely seems like an ego thing.
     
  7. Leighton

    Leighton Member

    Pointless is the issue of fake certificates, as youhave all said the person will be found out. Some people though don't have the patience and commitment to push themselves and earn the rank, they just want a short cut to it and like to boast about what they think they are. Every martial artist knows the position and respect of a rank is earned, that respect will soon be lost when the impersonators are found out!
     
  8. MitchG

    MitchG Member

    I think we will all agree that you can trust a REAL martial artist at face value, it is the frauds who you have to be wary of. I would never lie about my rank for any reason. In fact, yesterday I set my signature here as 1st Dan - even though I am testing in two weeks for 2nd Dan, I will not claim to be that until Grand Master Kim awards me the belt, despite the fact that I have successfully pre-tested.

    (I also know that after my test it will take 6-12 months to get the Kukkiwon because my school waits for a few tests to send then in as a batch so although I earned my 1st Dan in 2010 I only got my Kukkiwon a year later... but never claimed anything other than what I was until I had it)
     
  9. Rcoskrey

    Rcoskrey New Member

    How can you tell a fake from the real thing? Ask them something only the real thing would know?
     
  10. MitchG

    MitchG Member

    The only way to verify is to contact the certifying authority. If it is a Kukkiwon certificate, then their website has a mechanism to help you with this.
     
    Daniel Sullivan likes this.
  11. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan New Member

    Usually doesn't take long. Most of the fakes will trip themselves up by making 'authoritative statements' based on their supposed years of experience. Part of the issue of fakery is that the fakes want people to see them. They want to be heard. Which works to their disadvantage, as it is in their being seen and being heard that their lack of experience comes out.

    A good discussion about the nature of the forms of a given style is where many fakes fall apart. Watching how they perform is another area where fakes fall apart. Usually it is in subtle things that a novice practitioner will 'get' because they have been trained in the art, but a fake will not, in spite of supposedly having years of experience.
     
    NikHall89 and lorraine like this.
  12. Jon Sloan

    Jon Sloan Member

    Agreed, once you engage them in a conversation, they will inevitably trip themselves up or expose themselves for what they are.
     
  13. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan New Member

    And they get so infuriated and play the victim in the biggest way when they're found out.
     
  14. Master Fahy

    Master Fahy Active Member

    Fake Kukkiwon certificates has been a major problem. Sometimes people get certificates and have not even tested for them! Some senior black belts/Master instructors have received their next belt ranking without waiting the minimum amount of time. I do know that Korean instructors do get it alot earlier then most other countries/nationalities! Master Fahy
     
  15. Anthony Hayward

    Anthony Hayward Active Member

    Congratulations Mitch.. I am guessing you have now received your 2nd degree...well done
     
  16. MitchG

    MitchG Member

    Thank you Anthony! It was a great honour (and relief). When the second slab of concrete knew I breathed a sigh of relief, but as my newly revised signature states, I may be a Second Dan, but I will be a 1st Dan Kukkiwon until I have the certificate in hand.

    As an aside, it was a bit of a disappointment... the actual belts for the 2nd and 3rd Dans were not ready, and I will only receive the new belt when I get back home (I am now on the road for two weeks)!
     
  17. Master Fahy

    Master Fahy Active Member

    People do get promoted by the Kukkiwon without meeting the minimum time requirements ( that shouldn't happen) and it won't show up on the website because they only show your last promotion! I know several people who were the same Dan level as me (5th Dan) and they are 8th Dan now! I have been training longer and I don't have the minimum time to be 8th Dan so it's clear to me that there are politics involved! Congrads Mitch! Master Fahy
     
  18. lynM

    lynM Member

    I feel sorry for the students who are getting certificates, but their instructor isn't part of a formal school. Students who actually put in time but don't know what they are learning. I have asked some people I've met places (in line at a restaurant, etc) what style they are doing, simple questions like that. And they look at me like I am speaking a weird language.
     
  19. lorraine

    lorraine Member

    • Yes, i agree lynM.I know a 2nd dan who gave up training when the instructor told him that his rank was only recognised by himself and his small group.Its awful ,this lad had trained for years under the impression that his belt was official and recognised worldwide . If an instructor is not part of an official organization he/she should be upfront and honest from the start as Joe Bloggs in the street does'nt even know to ask!Its wrong.
     
  20. Master Fahy

    Master Fahy Active Member

    I have invited several students who have trained with someone else who presently is not certified by Kukkiwon (who use to be certified) to come to our school and we would evaluate their skill level and based apon their evaluation we could resubmit their testing to Kukkiwon for certification. It's ashame that people get caught up in this type of thing. Master Fahy
     
    MitchG likes this.

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