In House Created Forms - opinions?

Discussion in 'Taekwondo Patterns' started by Raymond, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. Raymond

    Raymond Active Member

    Starting this here as to not detract from another thread.

    Reading through Kevinbatchelor's thread on Military Forms, I started to think about the mentions of custom made, in house forms. What is everyone's opinions on that? If a school ignores the WTF or ITF forms and creates their own, do you think that is wrong or "not Taekwondo"? The person who gave me my 1st dan uses forms he said were called "pilsan" (SP???) forms and were handed down to him through his instructor. He acknowledges to students and parents who have come from other schools (ATA is most common in our neck of the woods) that they are vastly different than forms they are familiar with.

    Does anyone have any positive, negative or neutral thoughts on this?
    michael mckenna likes this.
  2. michael mckenna

    michael mckenna Active Member

    this is an interesting topic. i would say that it could be a good idea to create different forms in addition to the chang hon and kukkiwon forms to keep the art growing and addapting. grandmaster park jung tae believed it should keep growing so he created 6 different hyungs to the original 24 as he planned before he died to keep making and refining new forms and old forms. but have no idea what rank you should be able to do this maybe 9th degree grandmaster would be appropriate. i think to keep making new more advanced forms is a good idea as i follow the ideals of GM PARK and also my own ideals as i strongly believe in learn one way then find your own way
  3. NoBullShitFighting

    NoBullShitFighting Active Member

    My demands for any taekwondo school is for their skills to be applicable. I am therefore a big fan of learning "regular" forms like the 24 tuls or 8 taegeuk and 9 black belt forms, I don't like being taught forms that I can't enter competition with, I am currently working in sine waves for all of my ITF patterns modelled after Jaroslav Suska and technique for WTF patterns modeled after the korean pattern team, so that I can seriously compete. The same goes for sparring, I prefer ITF sparring because then I can enter kick-boxing and have relevant skills if I wanted to escalate to Muay Thai, K-1 or MMA, ITF sparring is just more adaptable. I have also seen occasions where the houseforms worked great, my first master was very popular for some time and had 75 pupils in a little elementary school gym hall, the solution was houseforms. But we still had different house forms for techniques, patterns, 1-step, theory and various sparring depending on belt-level for exams, but the days we had a full house and decided to go with the houseforms instead of crashing into walls and each other while doing tul or Taegeuk forms was always a relief :)
  4. Raymond

    Raymond Active Member

    Our program is more centered on self defense and full contact fighting application so the forms we use are short and abbreviated. Or as the head instructor says "just the meat and potatoes" with short direct movements, and only 5 of them (one for each solid color belt in the curriculum).
  5. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    Teach the traditional and make your own, unofficial ones, too. A martial artist must be able to adapt and create.

    Sparring is, for the most part, sparring. I think, basically, it is the person, not the association.
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  6. michael mckenna

    michael mckenna Active Member

    i think some would feel unqualified to do so or they feel they have no right i would probably feel like that. what would you say qualifies a person to make new forms ? and if you made new forms would you give them korean names or would you give then numbers
  7. Raymond

    Raymond Active Member

    We just refer to our forms as "white belt form", "blue belt form" etc.
  8. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    Watch any video by our great musical form specialist, Goju Ryu's Jean Frenette, and ask again. :) There are many, of course, but Jean was one of the first, if I recall right (and with little bias).

    I think that anything above, say 2nd degree can do it if they understand "fence" (offence/defence) and the techniques of their style or system.
    michael mckenna likes this.
  9. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    i think it also depend on the reason for creating the new forms. Has the person seen an aspect that is missing in the current forms and wants to cteate a new form to address this missing part. For example maybe for some of the TKD form there is a lack of hammer fist techniques so someone may want to crete a form to record these techniques similarly one may want to create a form that focuses on low kicking. This is feel is a valid reason for creating new forms

    There are certainly other reasons that people create new forms, things like power development, fighting tactics or maybe just astetics.

    i think when people create forms they should be very clear on the reason why they feel the need to create forms.
  10. Oerjan

    Oerjan Active Member

    To me Taekwondo is a martial art using the hands and feet With its modern format developed in Korea in the 40s-60s following the framework of basics, forms, sparring, self defense and breaking. Making New forms have been part of Taekwondo`s tradition for as long as the name Taekwondo has been in existance:) The earliest Schools all taught Okinawan, Japanese or Chinese forms, then the Chang Hon, Kuk-Mu, Palgwe, Taegeuk, Judanja etc forms were developed.

    I have nothing against Teachers making their own forms and teaching them as long as they are being honest about it With their students. Also if Applications are Your main concern there is merit of having few forms that are being studdied deeply instead of many forms studdied "narrowly".

    Today many People do not find themselves good enough to develop their own forms, but then again I think we nevery "truly" are. In the meantime though it is my belief that you should Experiment on making Your own forms along Your jurney so you might learn a thing or two about the "official Poomsae" or original forms being taught as well. Dan Djurdjevic has an excellent blog on martial arts where he wrote a little on making forms and he came up With gennerally 3 reasons why someone should make a form:

    I would add one more though: Training forms, making forms training the attributes and or techniques you want to focus on. I have made many forms over the years all falling into Dan Djurdjevics category one. My latest ones are focusing on the standarised self defense syllabus of the organisation I Train under so I might remember them better and training them without partner when I do not have them.

    While making forms is a Worth while thing to do we must on the same time not loose sight of the "official" ones as we do it. They are the framework of the art, the other forms are made for other reasons. My two cents anyway:)

    (for 3 more cents you can see this link: )
    michael mckenna likes this.
  11. michael mckenna

    michael mckenna Active Member

    ooh i havent read that blog yet lol
  12. Raymond

    Raymond Active Member

    Really good post Oerjan. When I get home tonight, I'll look through this giant encyclopedia of WTF and ITF forms that I have and name the forms that "our" forms are modifications/abbreviated versions of. After learning them from my instructor, I became interested in the "official" forms of TKD and was like "well that's almost like our ______ but our _____ is much shorter and tighter".

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