is plyometrics needed for non competitors ?

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by michael mckenna, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. michael mckenna

    michael mckenna Active Member

    i was wondering if explosive power is needed for those who dont compete ?. lets say if there is a dojang that doesnt have a sport version just teaches the martial art purely would this type of training be needed at all for defence on the street ?
    UK-Student likes this.
  2. John Hulslander

    John Hulslander Active Member

    Needed? Probably not, but there are benefits.
    In a street fight, being faster is better yes?
    Also there are general health benefits as well. The HIIT nature of plyo training promotes better overall health.

    Of course the stress on the joints is a cost you have to factor in the decision as well.
    northface, UK-Student and Master Fahy like this.
  3. Master Fahy

    Master Fahy Active Member

    I agree with you Sah Buh Nim Hulslander! We train the non-competitors with these techniques as well for better all around health and ability. Master Fahy
    UK-Student likes this.
  4. bowlie

    bowlie Well-Known Member

    My personal opinion is that class time should be devoted to skill, not fitness. Fitness is a very important part of martial arts, but if your students are too lazy to do some work outside of class then thats their problem. I also think that martial artists arent personal trainers. Just look at some of the bad advice in this forum. Imagine being taught that in class. Lastly, the best kind of fitness is the type done through sport specific work. Nothing grinds my gears more than when someone says 'we are having a fitness session today, start running'. For fighting one of the best fitness workouts you can do is working on the heavy bag. Much more sport specific than running or doing pushups. Much more effective.

    But whether you should do plyometrics depends on if you feel its important to you to be fast and powerful.
  5. Sabomnim Dan

    Sabomnim Dan Member

    I'm on the fence on this one Bowlie. It frustrates me when an instructor has me running laps of the hall, skipping, push ups, etc. for large portions of the class because I can and do do all of that in my own time.
    However, in an open class with a wide range of experience and fitness levels it should be expected that time is spent on general fitness, stretching, conditioning, etc. because Taekwondo is a whole system not just a series of techniques. Also, if students with zero prior knowledge or experience don't learn how to improve their fitness in class, where should they learn?
    As you rightly point out not all martial arts instructors are personal trainers but not all personal trainers are martial artists.
    It comes down to striking the right balance between class training and out of class training.
  6. michael mckenna

    michael mckenna Active Member

    well i dont really agree bowlie you cant just really on the heavy bag all the time you need other things too heavy bag only works to an extent
    UK-Student likes this.
  7. bowlie

    bowlie Well-Known Member

    Oh not all the time no, but sport specific exercise is more effective than non-sport specific. Like cyclists. A long distance cyclist would typically have a better aerobic system than a marathon runner, and just as well developed legs, yet you would not expect a cyclist to win a running race. Likewise someone that does lots of padwork, bag work, sparring e.c.t. will have better fighting endurance than someone that just runs and does occasional training. Like Ross Eminat (SP?) said 'most of my fighters conditioning is done with the gloves on'.

    In fact, this video probably sums it up better than I can. Joel is a world class combat sports S&C coach.

    A full S&C program would have a base stage. Lots of running and weight lifting for example. To build your aerobic engine and strength. That is followed by a conversion phase, where you convert the non-sport specific attributes like your max strength into sport specific attributes like power. You turn your aerobic endurance into your anaerobic and muscular endurance into fight specific endurance. If you need to be able to punch and kick for 3 x 3 min rounds, what better than punching and kicking something for 3 x 3 min rounds?

    @Sadomnim I agree flexibility and fitness should be worked on in class, but you get them through the taekwondo training. Well, the stretching might need to be done seperatly, but if you can work technique and fitness at the same time, great. Your right about fitness instructors. Your average gym instructor knows very little about sports strength and conditioning. But there is so much information out there about getting into shape. Alot of it is bad, but some is very very good.
    UK-Student likes this.
  8. Gethin_Rhys_James

    Gethin_Rhys_James New Member

    Plyometrics is often misunderstood. If you follow the original form "shock method" by Yuri Verkoshansky of Russia you will find that each explosive movement is done at 100% max muscular force. The set volume and repetitions are low to ensure that you are not fatigued below the ability to apply max force. Here are three ways plyometrics can benefit a recreational athlete:

    You can improve proprioception and reduce injury risk.

    You can improve the onset rate of the strength that you have gained through weight training. In my opinion doing plyometrics without lifting is like a roast dinner without meat. It'll leave you with disappointment!

    Good warm up practice. You can stimulate more nerve fibres to instantly improve the efficiency of your kicks.
  9. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    Plyometrics and weight training are separate beasts. Plyometrics are instant and quick firing of the fast twitch muscle fibres while weight training is training, mostly, slow twitch because they cannot fire fast enough. Basketball players would not use weight training but look how high the leap. Weight training can inhibit the fast twitch fibers needed for jumping, it seems.


    Power Training for Sport: Plyometrics for Maximum Power Development
    by: Bompa, Tudor
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  10. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    Because of the way that aerobics are done, I would say that the runner has the better aerobic due to one reason: they swing the arms while running and the bicyclist does not. The swinging of the arms across the chest has the benefit of pumping the heart and lungs like a bellows thereby making them work harder leading to better efficiency. This is why running and power walking burn more fat over 40 minutes @ MHR than swimming does.

    As we know, the aerobic from running does not equate quite the same on a bicycle or in the water so a person good at one will not have the oxygen efficient to do another unless, as stated, they train for it.

    Another note about plyometrics is that they are hard on joints but they are very good for bone density.
  11. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    Old thread but anyway

    So basically your question is "is explosive power needed for self defence?"

    100% yes

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