ITF Practitioners Only.Question about Wan-Hyo Tul

Discussion in 'Taekwondo Patterns' started by Rcoskrey, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. Rcoskrey

    Rcoskrey New Member

    I recently learned there is a difference between a side kick and a side piercing kick.

    My instructor pointed out that in Wan-Hyo, there is a bending ready stance just prior
    to the side piercing kick. I've discovered it is impossible to execute the kick from a bending
    ready stance.

    I just want to ask if anyone else has noticed this and what you think about possibly re-writing
    the pattern by getting rid of the bending ready stance or changing the kick to an average side

    I'm thinking about writing the federation about this.
  2. UK-Student

    UK-Student Active Member

    Side piercing kick (yop cha jirugi) is the default version of side kick (yop chagi). There are other versions of side kicks and the main way that they differ is how they are chambered and what part of the foot you kick with. All side kicks in the colour belt patterns are side piercing kicks. When people say side kick, they usually mean side piercing kick.

    Actually it is possible to throw a side piercing kick but you have to draw your leg back first as you are right in that just snapping the leg up from the bending stance position is not a proper side piercing kick. Your instructor should be able to show you how to do this. If he cannot show you how to do this, perhaps you should check his credentials as this would be a pretty basic move for any black belt.
  3. UK-Student

    UK-Student Active Member

    FYI - side piercing kick is a regular side kick
  4. Todd Pomeroy

    Todd Pomeroy New Member

    Rcoskrey - check out and click on patterns at the top. The videos there are a great tool to help you perfect your patterns. In the Won-Hyo video he shows exactly how to do a side (piercing) side from the bending ready stance (1) but you don't have to kick as high as he does, unless you can do it with good form.

    Now, I must tell you that the VI Dan who performs this does the tradition ITF style with the sign wave motion, so great if that's the way you've been taught, but if you have been taught the modern way, with no sign wave, then just ignore the "dips" between each movement.
  5. Master Fahy

    Master Fahy Active Member

    The difference between a side kick and a side piercing kick is only the striking surface of the foot. The side kick is with the heel and the side piercing kick is with the outside edge/blade of the foot. When performing this kick from the bending stance you must chamber the kick first, then while placing your weight onto the ball of your supporting leg's foot, you pivot your heel towards the target and then kick. No federation or organization would change the form based on a few people not being able to do a technique! Master Fahy
    UK-Student and Cameron Taylor like this.
  6. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    the bending ready stance has a very good application to precede a side kick, there is no reason to get rid of this
  7. UK-Student

    UK-Student Active Member

    ^ Which application? Just interested.
  8. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    i you are inclose and use the guarding block as a grapple, the bnding ready stance can be used to attack the front knee of your opponent. this is may not bring them down but should be enough to break their stucture
  9. UK-Student

    UK-Student Active Member

    ^ Ok. Very interesting. I thought it would be something like that. Thanks.
  10. Nightwing

    Nightwing Member

    What's so impossible about it?

    UK-Student- Application of kicks in close quarters-
    1)Chambering of side kick (bringing knee in to body) knees the inner thigh of opponent, actual kick is then performed to opponents other leg at the knee; taking them down.
    2)Front kick- knee up (chambering) is knee to opponents groin, kick is then directed to just below opponent's knee cap.
    3) Turn kick- On opponents flank you knee the back of their leg (chamber) and then kick the back of their other leg in the knee pit with instep.
  11. UK-Student

    UK-Student Active Member

  12. NoBullShitFighting

    NoBullShitFighting Active Member

    I do not doubt that what you are saying is true. However, I think you should try a little more before alerting the federation. Perhaps the federation is using a different bending ready stance. Alot can get lost in translation.

    I use the bending ready stance to twist the ankle properly, so that the knife of your foot, meaning the outer-edge of the sole of the foot is shot out to break the ribs of an imagined opponent. When the ankle is bent to strike with the knife of the foot you will feel it in your hips, it should be able to twists as it aligns itself to create a snapping motion at the end of the kick. This is also a very default way of moving, as the legs distributes the wheight of internal organs in between your anus and croch by using the heel, ball of the foot and knife of the foot to stand on.

    A way of testing this kick is to listen for the sound on impact with a punching bag. If the kick is done right, with the twist in the hip at the end, there should be a loud noise comming from the force of the impact and the punching bag should fly back. When it is done wrong the impact is unclear as the bag is being pushed, not kicked, by the foot.

    I wonder if this can come from a lack of flexibility, perhaps tense muscles stretches your nerves from your head that goes into your foot, creating to much discomfort for the muscles to dare to stretch out. Or it can come from your posture not making enough room into the bowl of the hip bone to twist the foot back out again. I suggest looking realy closely at how your instructor does it, ask the instructor to do it slowly, he is ITF so the precision and tech needed for doing this should be a piece of cake for him. These people can do a piercing sidekick slowly then turn 180 degrees with their foot still in the air. Then copy what the instructor is doing.
  13. Master Maldonado

    Master Maldonado New Member

    My humble opinion? The Pattern Won-Hyo was invented by whom? General Choi. So you are learning a "Martial Art" one would not ask his "Sensai, Kwang Jang Nim, Sabumnim" to "Change" the art to suit your needs. The technigues in any form, pattern, kata,or hyung were made at the time period for the time period. They are designed to help us with our technigue. Also Taekwon-Do was made for the Military and mandatory training for South Korean Soldiers even to this day.
    Chris J and John McNally like this.
  14. John McNally

    John McNally Active Member

    The bending stance is to help the twisting motion and while execution includes the straightening of said leg, with the attacking footsword coming from knee to target.
    Side Thrusting kick uttilise ball of foot.
    Side kick, side pushing kick and side piercing uttilise Balkal (foot sword Ball of foot lowere than heel)
    Master Maldonado likes this.
  15. Emma Hurley

    Emma Hurley New Member

    At first I found it difficult to do the side piercing kick from bending stance but it simply requires practice :)

    RTKDCMB Active Member

    I'm not ITF but I will put my two cents in: In the school I attend we only have one version of the side kick which can use either the blade of the foot, which is only really used to attack the legs, and the heel for everything else because it is the strongest weapon for that kick, being the foot's preferred alignment. Bringing the leg to the chamber position in Wan Hyo can be use for retracting the leg to avoid a sweep, jamming a kick, changing the type of kick in mid flight, changing your mind from kicking (put your foot down and step or punch for example) or as a feint.

    I can think of no reason whatsoever to use the ball of the foot for a side kick - it would be a good way to damage your ankle.
  17. John McNally

    John McNally Active Member

    Reaching and an option, the only way you would damage your ankle is to not lock out the kick like with a front kick or a punch.
  18. Martin R

    Martin R New Member

    This is a good example of how to kick in Won Hyo. You must chamber your leg before you kick. People make the mistake of thinking the leg is already chambered while in bending ready stance.

    If you look at Julia Cross video on youtube that will show you the technique.

    RTKDCMB Active Member

    That might be useful in a competition to get the points from further away but for self defence I would not consider a few centimeters of extra reach to be worth kicking with a less structurally strong attacking tool than the heel, but that's just me.I have never seen the ball of the foot used for a side kick.
    Todd Pomeroy likes this.
  20. John McNally

    John McNally Active Member

    Agreed, you would not really use it in the street but the learned option is always there, as to say it is ineffective or weak then this would meen a front kick was weak as the foot is in the same position utilising ball of foot, just the hip is rotated to enable side kick application. It is used in moon moo Tul.
    Once one learns its use then the application becomes useful generally after a checking kick or or pre-emptive to the attacker moving to you after the defender has moved back.

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