joint locks dont work on bigger stronger people

Discussion in 'Self Defense' started by michael mckenna, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker New Member

    There was a girl I trained BJJ with. She was about 130 pounds and she trained 3, 2 hour long classes a week, drilled at open mat, and took a private lesson - learning nothing but joint locks and escapes on the ground.

    It took her about 6 months to be able to beat regular sized men who just walked in through the door. About another 6 months and she could tape trained, adult male white belts with some experience, earning her the nickname "gate keeper."

    So, for her, about 200 hours of training to tap larger, untrained people.

    You are in for a surprise if you think you are going to tap a larger person out with a joint lock you practiced for 10 minutes on a compliant partner.
     
    bowlie likes this.
  2. Chris J

    Chris J Active Member

    you can't just walk up, grab someone and joint lock them. It won't work as an opening attack. Always use a joint lock in reactive circumstances. Action - Reaction. Joint locks work better when there is some sort of energy involved from the other person.
     
    Gnarlie likes this.
  3. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Reading this thread again, I have to add: you can just walk up and joint lock somebody when they are not expecting it and don't see you coming. Otherwise, you'll need to find a way to occupy their mind first. This can be done by hitting them or taking their balance using a large joint and working out to a smaller one.
     
  4. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    A black belt couldn't pull it off on me when I challenged him to it in class. I am not superstrong, but stronger than him and resisting, which was enough. He actually flipped over my shoulder eventually and tried other ways, which was pretty cool but still embarassing for him of course.
     
  5. Matt

    Matt Member

    You're ridiculous. You have no sense of respect. If your master came onto this sight would he be proud of what you say? each student is a representation of their master and you make yours look awful. If you were my student and I knew you talked like this online to other masters I wouldn't allow you to train. You have no idea how ignorant, and arrogant you are. You are a blue belt. You have no knowledge of taekwondo yet. Your opinion is validated by basically nothing. Wait till you're older and hold higher rank to share your opinion because quite honestly no one wants to hear it.
     
  6. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    I like to expose nonsense and not be DELUDED. A fellow student couldn't apply techniques on me, so the assistant black belt wanted to show it. We both questioned if it works against a resisting opponent, to which he replied: yes. Well, it didn't.

    Is that my fault?
     
  7. Matt

    Matt Member

    I'm just saying that the delivery of what you say comes across in a negative way. And how do you know it is nonsense? you're merely a blue belt. The assistant black belt may not have known what he was doing either. Ever consider that maybe it was his first time trying to teach the technique.
     
  8. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

  9. Mario Ray Mahardhika

    Mario Ray Mahardhika Active Member

    Don't waste your time, @Matt. If you see all of his responses all over the threads he's been into, none of them are respectful. Just leave him with his own imagination of knowing and understanding everything. This kid needs life lesson, which will eventually come to him. Arrogance doesn't last long in my experience.
     
  10. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    Muscles can be made bigger and you can get stronger. Ligaments and tendons a lot less so (ligaments not a all). Wrist locks attack the ligaments and tendons so, therefore, by the logic, a lock will work on anyone, big or small. Sometimes even better on the bigger person if they have tight joints. Strength won't affect a lock per se but it can help to overcome one

    Someone said this prior and needs to be mentioned again. Locks are never a primary move. If a moment presents its self or you may set one up, try. If it does not catch, carry on and try again if a moment appears.
     
  11. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    They are trained that way though, in my school anyway, and everyone I've heard of. Also known as "Grab my wrist"-training.
     
  12. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Personally I enjoy it when people resist. Makes my job easier. Resisting in one direction is assisting in another. Change the technique and direction, accompanied by a hefty kick where it hurts and a structure break.

    Then they say "that wasn't fair, I wasn't expecting it", to which I answer "there's your answer".

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
     
    Oerjan likes this.
  13. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Funny how people are perfectly happy to begin learning kicks and punches outside of a resisted fight scenario, but have a problem with isolating self defence principles in a similar way. There has to be a starting point. There has to be structure.

    Later, these principles are implemented under resistance in those sparring formats you've not been privy to.
     
  14. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    Take gnarlie's thought to heart. There is nothing wrong with that starting method because joints locks are simply a principle. One principle, for instance, is that a wrist moves in 7 ways. An advanced martial artist will use that principle in anything using the wrist while a "practitioner" will only do what they learn. Martial artists will take principles and modify, adapt, etc them while practitioners will not grow and will become stagnant.
     
  15. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    So, what you are saying is that you challenged (very wrong (ego)) a higher belt to do a lock. The short answer is that you knew it was coming? I tell you what: challenge that same rank, or a higher one, to 1-2 months length of time to come at you and apply any lock he wants ANYTIME without your knowledge. Then we will see it your attitude on locks holds true. Note also, being a hapkido practitioner, if the black belt had used a circular, rather than linear, superior strength can be defeated 85%, or more, of the time.
     
  16. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    [
    Uhmm... We do clockwise joint manipulations in TKD. Same in Kyokushin and many other arts.
     
  17. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    So, since Kyokushin, it's off-shoots, and most other Japanese/Okinawan arts like Shotokan and Gojuryu that would equate to next to none.
     
  18. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    No, we are graded in it and it's part of the ITF curriculum. You can't make a broad statement like that either. Joint manipulation is a component of all Kyokushin schools but was not codified however in all Shotokan-dojos.
     
  19. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    All of the sites I have read (when I was researching what I wanted to train in) about Kyoskushin state is not a part of the curriculum unless an instructor makes it. Their focus may have some kata but full-contact sparring is 85% of their training.
     
  20. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Erm, it's part of "self defence", which any legit Kyokushin school has. Show me a source which explicitly state that joint manipulation is not taught.

     

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