Juche - An Adequate Protest

Discussion in 'Taekwondo Patterns' started by UK-Student, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. UK-Student

    UK-Student Active Member

    I just posted a technical question about pattern Ko-Dang but it made me want to post this philosophical one about Juche.

    http://www.visiontkd.co.uk/assetshome/pdf/The Dilemma Of Juche.pdf

    Clearly Juche is NK propaganda. Choi Jung Hwa's group renamed the pattern Ko-Dang in opposition to this. I don't like that move because there is already a pattern named Ko-Dang but I appreciate the sentiment.

    I guess I have two questions:

    1) If you could rename Juche to anything else, what would you rename it to? Baekdu? Ch'ang Hon? Any other suggestions?

    2) Keeping in mind that I can't rename the pattern, to what lengths could I go in order to register my protest at the idea. I could just not shout anything at the end of the pattern, which is good but kind of weak. I could /try/ to never to call it Juche, and only call it "the 45 move pattern" (doesn't work because of Eui-Am) or the "Pattern in the shape of Baekdu mountain" but this is semi-hilarious, kind of like actors refusing to say the word Macbeth. I could just discard it in favour of Ko-Dang but it seems a shame. Any suggestions?
    Chris J likes this.
  2. Chris J

    Chris J Active Member

    My suggestion...learn both teach both, let the examiners decide if they wish to see you perform either and let all the political in-fighting to the ones that struggle for power in TKD, it's them that take the Do out of Taekwon Do
  3. UK-Student

    UK-Student Active Member

    That's what I am currently doing an of course it is up to examiners but at the same time I feel like I have personal responsibility for which ideas I celebrate. If I am going to be shouting "juche" at the end of a pattern, it's my responsibility - that someone else told me to do it is not an excuse. Some of the original TKD Pioneers felt like this as well (about NK in general, not specifically the pattern) and left the ITF as a result. In that situation, I think they were acting entirely morally (although of course, I am sure many had other reasons for leaving as well).
  4. Chris J

    Chris J Active Member

    If you're unsure what to shout at the end.... just Ki-ap as you finish the last move. Make ready for the consequences.
  5. Chris J

    Chris J Active Member

    Was a good read Simon, I understand the dilemma completely. One thing I can say is that Gen. Choi had his reasons. Perhaps he felt strongly about the first Tenet: Courtesy. He may have believed Kim, Il Sung to be completely wrong but extended the courtesy of refusing to argue with those that didn't care what historical, warrior ideals he held. It's perhaps one of the hardest things to do for some, but always achieves the best results for all.....forget the ego, smile and nod (or bow). And then call them what you like in a quiet place if you wish to let off steam. This may have been what the General was thinking.
  6. Master Maldonado

    Master Maldonado New Member

    I would rename it "Choo Son" "DPRK" it seems fitting.
  7. NoBullShitFighting

    NoBullShitFighting Active Member

    Let us go about this with reason. Tell more about the base of your decision. Often your realise more and more what solution you want to take as you introspect on your feelings.

    Maybe you should shout "Communism" on the end, if you really want to push it. But it would probably cost you the belt if done on an exam.

    I checked a couple of videos from real events on youtube and the "Ki-hap" as already suggested seems to be what floats best. I vote in favour of kihap if you have not had a decent civil conversation about not saying the name of the pattern with the sensors it may concern. Staying true to the tenants of taekwondo, state your opinion in a self-respecting manner to the sensors, I am sure they will work something out for you.
  8. John McNally

    John McNally Active Member

    The dilema is realy as noticed that you wish not to call Juche, i too recommend Shouting at the end to remidy this personal aspect, however for me this is not an issue as i did (many years ago) the Origional Tul of Ko-Dang if you have the origional Encyclopedia's and condensed encyclopedia you will notice that many stories of change have called for misunderstanding.
    Financial requirements were met by the north Korean government so that the General could hugely continue his aim to take TKD to the world in the aim to help create a more peacefull world, the funds were used in many ways and one was for his TKD instructors to travel the world.
    At the same time, to show his gratitude and other reasons Juche was created and implemented into the 24 Tuls.

    To show reference to this please use:

    Condensed encyclopedia
    Year 1968 printed in Korea
    Edition: The First no number
    Page of Tul: 208
    Diagram: T
    Movements: 39
    Chunbi ready stance: C
    Publication by: Daeha Publication company, Seoul, Korea

    Modern day representation in the last overseen edition by the General:
    Condensed Encyclopedia.
    Edition: 5
    Year 2004
    Page 566
    Diagram: W
    Movements: 45
    Chunbi ready stance: Parralel with A trin elbow.

    I only use the Condesed Encyclopedia as the full encyclodedias were created after the implementation of Juche, however again i also only do this to assist in keeping the True nature of the DO as was the vision by The Founder General Choi Hong Hi. also to remove misconceptions in the history of TKD tuls.

    With respect to all.

    John McNally
  9. UK-Student

    UK-Student Active Member

    I think this works in most situations but not for a dictator who rules by force. It is not ego that makes me refuse to accept the tradition but empathy for the North Koreans who whether they agree with the regime or not, have no choice and must live through whatever famines and violent purges the "Juche" idea leads them to.
    John McNally likes this.
  10. John McNally

    John McNally Active Member

    I agree with you and this is why i will not call Juche when i use the Tul....... some of the actual Juche Philosophy is sound but then there are extremists in all cases....... I stick with the origional Tul of Ko-Dang for my Students however i also recognise Juche for those i see grade.....
    NoBullShitFighting likes this.
  11. NoBullShitFighting

    NoBullShitFighting Active Member

    That is a REALLY good point! Why not keep the philosophy if they must, but rename it after an example worth honoring!
    John McNally likes this.

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