Jumping in the patterns

Discussion in 'Taekwondo Patterns' started by Finlay, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    Hi there

    Does any one have any thought on the jumping in the patterns?

    For example:

    The jump/leap in Yul Gok landing in x-stance, back fist

    The jump in Toi Gye, landing in x-stance with pressing x-block

    The 360 jump in Choong Moo, landing in knife hand guarding block


    Do you think these serve a practical purpose as they stand?

    Are the modern exaggerations of smaller movements?

    Are the just for art?
     
  2. Matt

    Matt Member

    These moves do have purpose to them. In Yul Gok the jump back fist is used in the sense that your opponent is far away and you need to get closer to hit them, so a normal step in wouldn't work. In Toi Gye, that jump is like you're jumping over someone or something. Like for example a barrel on the ground. The 360 jump in Choong Moo is one where I'd say it may be a little too fancy for its purpose, which I believe is to jump over something attacking your legs. Such as a stick is being swung at your legs so you jump to avoid it and then land with the wife hand to block a second attack. Could this move be done without the spin? well yes, so I think this may be exception where it has been made fancier.

    For any of this to matter though, you need to understand that forms are self defense. Forms are called mach combat, fake sparring. They are the basis to your self defense and should be treated as such. The combination of blocks and strikes mimic what you could do in a fight.
     
  3. Matt

    Matt Member

    And on a separate note, as you get higher and higher up in patterns they seem to have more and more jumps that could be taken out, but may have been added to enhance the complexity of a pattern
     
  4. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    The 360 jump in Choong Moo is clearly art/ performance since there is no attacking combat technique that follows. Looks pretty cool, so why not.
     
  5. Matt

    Matt Member

    says the green belt..... you don't even know this pattern yet so your statement is invalid
     
  6. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Says the 17 year old with 4 dan (aren't you embarassed?)
     
  7. Matt

    Matt Member

    why would I be embarrassed? you are being extremely disrespectful in the other thread, I thought I'd carry it over to this one. I would never go and correct or teach Ship Jin, I don't know that pattern. Nor would I ever try to tell someone what a move i that pattern is used for. If you're a green belt you shouldn't be giving insight on higher up patterns since you have no experience with them yourself.
     
  8. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Oh, please. Logical inferrences are still very much possible. You are the one insulting my credentials as a green belt, when this hole hierarchy is long since discredited. Take a kickboxer after 2 or 3 years and tell me what a beginner he is.
     
  9. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Out of interest Matt, which patterns did you have to do for your last grading? I learn the forms ahead, so I practise them all, because competition requires it in Europe. My next grading will be Taebaek, but I have competed with the higher forms, so I pretty much know them backwards now.
     
  10. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Aren't you embarrassed at not being able to spell embarrassed?

    Nothing wrong with a 4th dan at 17, happens all the time in Korea. It's how we ensure great talent in the future leaders of our art. They start young.

    4th dan at 17 may or may not be the same as 4th dan at 30, but when both of those people are 60 years old, I know which one I would rather have as my instructor. It's about experience in the art, a concept you seem to have some issues understanding.
     
  11. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    I am sure a teenager has plenty of experience.
     
  12. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    More than you. And will still have more than you when you are both 60+

    Frankly, this kid knows more about martial arts than you will ever know, largely due to your attitude getting in the way of your progress, and his attitude facilitating his progress.
     
    Matt likes this.
  13. Matt

    Matt Member

    I was asked to perform all the ITF color belt patterns so Chun Ji up to Chong Moo. And the All the ITF patterns please excuse my spelling but Kwang Gae, Po Eun, Gae Bek, Ui Yam, Choong Jang, Ko Dan, Chu Je, Sam Il, Yoo Sin, and the WTf patterns Koryo, Keumgang, and Tae beck. I have also been training in Bo Staff for about 9 years and about 7 with the Sai. I know numerous patterns for both and was asked to perform one Bo Staff pattern of my choosing. It is called Bo Young Duel Showdon. It is a modified version of a traditional Japanese bo staff pattern that my instructor created when he was a teenager. It is the longest bo staff pattern I know probably around 80 movements. So in total I believe I performed 22 patterns.
     
  14. Matt

    Matt Member

    Why thank you Gnarlie. While yes I understand that you, Pleonasm, think that I am unqualified because of my age I am sorry for you. You continually compare Taekwondo to Karate so maybe you should train in Karate instead. For my age factor, I may be young but I still have 12 years under my belt, I've trained with multiple olympians, I've trained with multiple grandmasters, I have competed at the local, and international level, and I am a certified 4th dan under Kukkiwon in Korea and AAU in America. I teach an average of 11 classes a week, ranging from beginner little kids about 5 years old up through adult black belt classes. I also am the second in command coach for our sparring/ competition team. I know what I am talking about when it comes to Taekwondo and out of everything involved with Taekwondo, patterns are my specialty.
     
  15. Matt

    Matt Member

    Yes, I fully agree with this. And just another thing to add my instructor is the youngest 6th dan in America that I know of. Meaning certified with AAU and Kukkiwon. He is like 36 years old and started training when he was 5. No one questions his rank, he has been a 6th dan for about 7 years now. So yes he could test, but he hasn't because he wants to be older because he see's himself as being too young. It is all about time you've been training. He may be young but he has a lot of time training, he was won medals all of the world and is going to be one of the few instructors certified by Kukkiwon to run test through them.
     
  16. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Your experiences as a 10 year old are not relevant experiences. Do I really need to elaborate why?
     
  17. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Your experiences as a child prepare your body and mind for what is to come when your are an adult, giving you a massive, and I mean massive, advantage over those who begin training as adults. This is in terms of physical conditioning, flexibility, co-ordination, concentration, drilled in movement and just plain old cultural understanding. If you don't understand why those things are important, you really know nothing about martial arts.
     
  18. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    If you don't understand theres more to martial arts than flexibility, then your the ignorant one. I am talking intellectually, spiritually everything. Let's hear him relate to his experiences as a child. I don't need more of this nonsense. Bye
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  19. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    All that stuff can come later. He still has the advantage.

    Bye now, good riddance, don't come back.
     
  20. Matt

    Matt Member

    I would love for you to elaborate so please do
     

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