Knee cocked down syndrome...

Discussion in 'General Taekwondo Discussions' started by Pleonasm, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    I can make myself more flexible, but I can't keep my knee horizontal (or vertical when throwing a roundkick) to the floor, and height of the kick doesn't really matter.

    This grandmaster instructor has the same inherent flaw, so the obvious question is: has this to do with ones physical limitations? Why are some just not be able to get that knee held at the proper angle?

    His student however can,-----

     
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  3. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    The best way to describe it is the weight of the leg pushing down the knee, pointing to the floor the moment the leg is raised and held up. Are there any ways to solve this? Is it flexibility or strength related? Leg conditioning in training is nowhere near sufficient to adress the problem.
     
  4. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    It's flexibility, strength, balance and posture. You'll need to train all of them for a very long time to fix it. It's the progress of years rather than months if you are naturally predisposed to short hip flexors and adductors.

    The best thing you can do is admit to yourself that your kick is suboptimal and start working on it. The older you are, the harder it gets.

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  5. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    One big factor that is stopping you from achieving the knee lift is the angle of your pelvis to the standing leg. Because it's overrotated, your kicking hip is blocked from opening. Strength training for your hip flexors will address this, along with a keen eye for that angle as you kick.

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  6. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    It would probably be a good idea to stop trying to convince people of how awesome you are in the meantime; some of the more experienced among us can identify flaws pretty quickly. I've been watching you get picked apart in the Bullshido threads for a while now.

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  7. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    The hip flexors workout manual is the same as in the dojang. Does nothing. My question is: will putting muscles on the leg improve knee placement in the air? I mean muscles from the gym.
     
  8. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    Here's a good snapshot of it from the clip:

    He is throwing a back kick mechanics to a sidekick one. _20180628_134330.JPG
     
  9. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    No. It is sport specific training. If you investigate deeper into the anatomy of the hip flexors, the structure of the hip and exercises to strengthen and relax that musculature, it will help you in the long term.

    You might say exercises do nothing, but think on this: for the first three months of daily training, it is normal to see ZERO progress. There is a barrier to entry, then after 3 months things start to open up. This training is neural as much as physical, and neural training takes time.

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  10. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    I know. It's just like yours, but I would expect he is doing it consciously, sacrificing structure and power for speed, for sparring purposes. I strongly doubt that he can't get his knee up - look at the kick in the video opening.

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  11. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    He is by no means the only ITF OR KKW instructor online with this characteristic. I have referenced another one in the poomsae instructional. His student does it correctly though.
     
  12. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    It's one of the most common issues with the side kick. Because it takes time and perseverance to correct, many people assume that they can't do it.

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  13. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    I have actually researched this. There are no Shotokan black belts allowed through without kicking with open hips both side and turning kicks. Half a dozen TKD black belts, including some instructors, have closed hips however.
     
  14. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    I think that just makes TKD more inclusive and less elitist. Closing physically limited people out of the black belt pool based on something they can't change doesn't seem right. However, a majority of healthy people with normal bone and muscle structure will be able to improve over time with the right training. I see people of all levels in all martial arts with technical flaws, especially in this kick.

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  15. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    It's hard to form an opinion if it should be a requisite or not unless I really know how much of a difference in power there is. And I can't speak on that because I have never been able to do both. Maybe you can give your take on it.
     
  16. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    But if a kata for a certain grade prescripes a sidekick and the tester can't execute it properly, why should he/she be awarded the belt? There's a difference between proper and good. I wouldn't say all Shotokan black belts kick "well", but they do kick correctly.
     
  17. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    And not the turning kick? I don't throw the turning kick any better. Same problem there
     
  18. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    It's significant, and worth the effort in that it benefits all kicks.

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  19. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Depends what black belt means to the examiner.

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  20. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    All kicks are affected, it's just really noticeable in those two.

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  21. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Try an experiment to determine what difference structure makes. Hold the kick out at any height and have someone push against your foot. You will lose your balance due to the knee down structure. Knee up higher than the foot throughout, balance and muscle engagement is correct and offers much greater stability. Try it out.

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