Knee Pain

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Keigo, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Keigo

    Keigo Member

    Hi. I've been suffering from a rather unusual knee problem, and just wondering if anyone has experienced something similar. Have tried looking up various sources, also seen quite a few doctors and a physiotherapist, gone for x-rays and MRIs but nothing came up, so they seem stumped and not quite sure what's wrong either. The doctor did diagnose me with lax/hypermobile joints, and suspect the pain may have something to do with that...

    Just a lil background: I started TKD when i was 13, trained for about 3-4 years, but then stopped for about 10 years (gasp!) due to study/work etc, and now I'm trying to get back into TKD again. I've never had any problems with my knee before, but about 2-3 months after I started training again, I started to have this strange pain on the outside and slightly towards the back of my right knee. I don't recall any particular incidents which I may have hurt it, so I'm suspecting it could've been a gradual onset which I hadnt really paid much attention to until it got serious.

    I wouldnt say the pain is sharp, feels more like something is getting clipped or irritated inside. It seems the pain is triggered most of the time when I exert my right leg or put most of my weight on it. It did get quite bad at one point where I had to stop training for about 6 agonising months. Now I'm slowly getting back again while strengthening my knee, but I'm just not too convinced that it's on the road to recovery...

    It seems to have good days and bad days. On bad days, I would feel the pain when shuffling, say doing a forward shuffle with my right leg behind (so I have to 'push off' with my right leg), or doing a back stance with my right leg behind (so most of the weight is on the right). On good days, those actions wouldnt hurt at all, the whole session would be pain-free, but later the pain would set in ~2 hours after training. The after-training pain isnt constantly present, it's only when I've kept my leg bent for a couple of mins like sitting in a chair, and when I try to straighten it as I get up, it would hurt for awhile, then goes away. Or squatting with most of my weight on my right leg. This tends to last for about 2 days, and then it suddenly goes away... until I go for training again.

    I'm due for another review with my doctor in 2 weeks time, but I'm getting frustrated that my condition is not improving much at all. Anyone has any similar experiences or any ideas? I really dont want to have to stop TKD again :(
     
  2. Master Fahy

    Master Fahy Active Member

    I would suggest going to an acupuncturist because you've tried the other medical doctors. You may just need a few treatments! Master Fahy
     
  3. Chris J

    Chris J Active Member

    2 questions:
    Do you have reasonable flexibility?
    Are your hamstrings fairly strong?
     
  4. bowlie

    bowlie Well-Known Member

    I would really recomend seeing a sports doctor? were abouts do you live? the UK I guess seeing as you didnt start the thread with 'I cant afford a doctor'. Most are freelance, and you have to pay, but not a whole lot. the guy I go to does £15 sessions and he is very good. He is in manchester if you live near? if not im sure there are loads were you live
     
  5. Ivor

    Ivor Member

    hi keigo, it sounds like you may have something similar to me - i have soft carterlidge and loose ligaments in my right knee (osteo malasha patela. dont know if i spelt it right), its been something i have put up with since the early 90's. it is only just beginning to get worrisome for me. i was given some exercises by a doctor which i try to do but these only strengthen the quads to stabilise the knee they wont resolve the soft cartelidge problem. i also find that continuing training, although more gently helps keep the mobility and does reduce the pain. the most important thing is to ensure you dont lock out on training kicks in fresh air as this will hyperextend the knee and will damage the cartelidge. other than that i can only say i know people who have had serious joint problems who have had accupuncture or accupressure and have found them to be a great benefit, so it may be a course to pursue. good luck
     
  6. Keigo

    Keigo Member

    Hi guys, first off thanks for all the advice.

    I have thought of that, but I was a little worried about those needles leaving some unsightly marks lol... I'll have to go take a look around for reputable ones.

    I'm abnormally flexible, to the point it freaks most people out heheh :p It's pretty much got to do with the loose joints, so it's a double-edged sword I guess. As for the hamstrings, I think they may be fairly weak, so I've been working on them. Any 'tests' that I could do to find out? I'm pretty curious myself too.

    Unfortunately I dont live in the UK, I'm from Singapore. I'm not sure if there are any sports doctors here, I'll have to look it up, but the one I'm seeing is an orthorpaedic surgeon. Would a sports massage therapist be the same as a sports doctor?
     
  7. Keigo

    Keigo Member

    Did a quick check on the osteomalacia thing, that looks serious :eek: Will it ever get well? I tend to wear a knee guard during training sessions to help stabilise the knee, so fewer actions trigger the pain. Also thanks for the reminder on hyperextending, I usually dont have a problem with that, but occasionally I do lose focus and just throw my leg out instead of doing a proper kick heheh. My instructors and physio have been reminding me to take it wasy during training, but damn, thats got to be the toughest thing to do.
    Looks like I really should go try acupuncture, I'll just have to wear pants to cover those needle marks!
     
  8. Ivor

    Ivor Member

    hi Keigo, i first went to the doctor in 1991 with the problem, so i dont think it will get better on its own (i am now mid 40's and still suffer), also be careful with the knee support i use them from time to time, but they will weaken the muscles round the knee by providing additional support to the joint so the muscles dont need to. but there are things you can do to help it, i just looked and found this website which may be of help as it gives info on a treatment called Prolotherapy that looks promising, http://www.jointrehab.com/chondromalacia_patella.htm
    there are exercises that strengthen the muscles round the knee and effectively shorten them which helps to stabilise the joint.
    try looking for websites that will explain exercises to isolate and strengthen the muscles, although i never seem to get round to them even though you can do them all sitting on the floor in front of the telly! if i can explain them clearly on paper i'll post them here for you to try.
     
  9. Keigo

    Keigo Member

    hi Ivor, thanks for your advice. I only use the knee support for TKD sessions, I dont use them for other stuff 'cause they dont seem to hurt my knee. And yup, I've been doing squats and lunges at home, and hit the gym once a week to work on leg extensions, leg curls and cycling. I also like to do those slow kick-and-hold exercises, I think they're really good for building the muscles which we usually use in our kicks. Been trying really hard to improve my fitness overall, and I do feel my fitness has bumped up a notch, but its still disheartening when you dont feel any noticeable improvements in the knee. Makes me feel a pinge of jealousy when I see others who can train as hard as they like :(
     
  10. Master Fahy

    Master Fahy Active Member

    Keigo, the needles are so thin (small) you will never see any marks! Master Fahy
     
  11. Keigo

    Keigo Member

    Sweet, thats good to know! Thanks Master Fahy!
     
  12. Master Fahy

    Master Fahy Active Member

    Keigo, and you don't even feel the needles! Master Fahy
     
  13. Keigo

    Keigo Member

    Hey guys, just an update.

    I had a review with my doctor over the weekend, but it seems he has given up. He believes there's nothing else he can do, and that the pain will go away if I work on strengthening (which I don't feel is helping much at all, albeit my kicks are getting stonger yay!).

    I also went for my first acupuncture session, and well... I got a little more than I asked for lol. I first had the traditional acupuncture, and I must say it was not as scary as I had imagined it to be ;) I was feeling ambitious after that, so I went for something more... adventurous. He did cupping, and some fire needle acupuncture thing, that was HELL :eek: My knee felt ok after that, though I'm not sure if the pain had gone away on its own like previously, or if I was just numb from all the burning needles.. Got some marks and bruises to show for it :D Overall, I felt quite good about it, gave me a glimmer of hope after the previous doc had written me off. I still dont know what is wrong with my knee, but the acupuncturist claims he has seen similar cases before and seems confident about fixing it. But that's what they all say, so... Will just have to see.
     
  14. Jecky

    Jecky New Member

    That could be the pain in you muscle you should go to the doctor or it can be any type of weakness in the knee,i have heard about these kind of cases so go for a checkup the doctor will suggest you the appropriate medicine for it.
     
  15. allan jones

    allan jones New Member

    I have had similiar keen problems...over many years of running and TKD
    I have gone to doctors, I have used most of the various braces....all were of little help
    I call the problem "mobile knee caps"
    The one thing that did work well was the rubber band that just straps under you knee cap ( can't remember the official name)
    You can get them at the drug store......patellar strap
     
  16. Keigo

    Keigo Member

    Thanks for the advice Jecky & Allan.

    Yes I do have mobile knee caps, but I never imagined that it would cause pain at the back/outer side of the knee o_O
    I'm starting to suspect that it might be caused by a tight muscle somewhere as the pain usually goes away after 2-3 days. Probably gonna seek a second opinion from another doctor.
     
  17. Ivor

    Ivor Member

    hi Keigo,
    i hope the second opinion is a good one :)
    i got the results of the xrays on my knees last week - i got the beginnings of artharitis :eek: , so i'm gutted but relieved it is nothing more serious, i was told to continue with the TKD as it is obviously keeping me supple but to work on strengthening the lower quads.
    do this by laying flat, pull the toes back toward you and fully straighten the legs, then lift them 6 -12 inches and hold them for approx 5 seconds, lower them, then repeat.
    also you could try the following;
    place a big rolled blanket or cushion under your knees then pull back your toes and press the knees down into the cushion (i also place my hands over the lower quads to ensure they fully tighten - you need to be sure the inner quad works as well, which it often won't with knee pain).
    with the cushion still in place under the knees and the toes pulled back, press the heels into the ground hard, this will work the back of the thigh.
     
  18. Keigo

    Keigo Member

    Hi Ivor, so now you've got 2 conditions afflicting your knees? That blows... But thanks for the exercises, gonna give them a try!
     
    Ivor likes this.
  19. Nightwing

    Nightwing Member

    My only suggestion for the pain you mention and describe is that your ITB (IlioTibialBand) is tight which is in turn could be affecting your knee therefore you should stretch it as much as possible. You could also buy a roller for your thighs or use anything around your house as a substitute for one. I experienced something like what your talking about and a tight ITB was the cause. I would suggest you try this before the everything else suggested simply because its something you can do now.
     
  20. Keigo

    Keigo Member

    Nightwing, thanks for your suggestion, my condition seems to have improved! (fingers crossed still) Quite surprised that my ITB was the cause, that was the first thing my physio checked out but she found that it wasnt tight, so we brushed it off. Still experiecing abit of pain by the side when I squat and place slightly more weight on it, which I suspect might be a different issue.
     

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