Knife defnece

Discussion in 'Self Defense' started by Finlay, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    I have looking at knife defnece for the past few months and would like to get people's idea on it. i realise that this is a very controversial subject with many different an often conflicting view points. However, i hope to get sme interesting view points on knife defence and training techniques, to start off........

    one thing that I do with my more advanced students is knife defence sparring (thinking of a better name as I type) basically one person gets a training knife the other person gets nothing. the we decide on a goal, either to escape or attack, i leave out disarms right now focusing on foundation skills. it is an interesting practice for everyone.

    anyway i would like to hear other people's idea on knife defence
  2. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    One area that is considered strong in knife since the whole art is based on blades and a definite one to study (ask the U.S. Marines where the nickname "leatherneck" came from and I doubt they would be honest): Arnis/Escrima/Kali are a very good study for knife fighting and defense. And, as usual, the best defense against a knife is to run, as fast as possible, the opposite direction.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
    Ivor and Narcsarge like this.
  3. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    Ineglected to mention that i study eskrima, yes a very good art that i enjoy hugely

    with regards running away, if the chance is there it may work, but i see many people teach bad tactics to running away.i.e. just turning and running. if you are too close, have no where to run, or the one with the knife is a faster runner and very intent on attacking you then running away may not be your best option.
    canadiankyosa likes this.
  4. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    Always train to be better, if possible, than the opponent. It's true it is not always an option, but train it. Running, sprinting and ling distance, is not a great "martial arts" exercise, but it is one of the best self defense ones. :)
    Narcsarge likes this.
  5. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    I agree with you but my point is that you need to be able to run away in the correct way, not just turn your back and go for it. Also you need something for when running isn't an option
  6. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    If you can get the Alain Burrese book,

    Hard-Won Wisdom From The School Of Hard Knocks (Revised and Expanded): How To Avoid A Fight And Things To Do When...

    You would learn a mint about practical fighting. He lives so close to me, if I had the cash, I would bring him for a seminar here. Running is the most important part of self defense training. When doing this, make it an obstacle course. Run and climb over as many obstacles as you can. Jogging is okay if you want to go jogging.

    Alain speaks some about weapons and such, too. You can outrun a knife, but not a bullet, so some experts say to crowd a gun (get in close) and run from a knife (unless they are experts at throwing. If they are, you are not going to want to go against them, I bet).

    There are many arts, traditional (aikido and hapkido) and practical (krav maga and systema), that would be great against blades. I only suggest this to black belts, usually: research them all and adapt them if needed, to TKD.
  7. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    yes you can out run a knife but not always, sometimes oyu have to fight. I would rather fight a knife thrower than a knife fighter
  8. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    The tactic to outrun a knife is the same as a gun, but the chance of succeeding is better: weave side to side a lot. Most people cannot throw a knife to hit a person anyway. If you run, you chance getting away using an obstacle course. If you do not succeed running away, you can still fight (albeit, a tired fight if you do not train as above). All-in-all, on the off chance that the area you live in makes a knife attack more likely (and even if not as in my case), than knife defense is a great experience. :)
  9. Chris J

    Chris J Active Member

    Just some points I've learned: I have 6 rules to knife defense each rule is designed to follow a progression. These rules centre around a knife being weilded to make you more compliant with certain demands like your body or your money. Concealability is a problem, so always suspect an attacker to have a knife, it follows typical behaviour of tipping the odds against you.
    Rule 1: Run, (if you can), and make a lot of noise, most idiots that carry knives don't want the attention and are not willing to let go of their precious advantage in a hurry so throwing it is a rare option for these fools....failing that, and you can't run......
    Rule 2: Don't take your eyes off the knife, in most instances someone that carries a knife for protection is a grub with little sense or balls on how to use it. People that are trained with knives generally are not the types to go mugging people. This means that your only concern should be if you are actually attacked. Don't look them in the eye, look at the knife!
    Rule 3. Expect to be cut, like a fist fight you'll never expect to walk away unscathed, if you're smarter you'll be cut, but not fatally.
    Rule 4. Dont try and grapple, all the martial arts training will not help you if you try and wrap up your attacker in a fancy wrist lock or arm bar. They rarely work because of the multiple attempts where the knife is drawn back and forth to stab or slash. In saying this always block or fend repeated attacks, as close to the knife as possible. Striking the arm or wrist that is holding the knife.
    Rule 5: Demolish the attacker at the first (and possibly the only) opportunity.
    Rule 6: If you're successful, then run, don't call an ambulance or play CSI, just GO!
    Train hard! Fight harder!
  10. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    I would suggest not doing this as the knife could be "cobra". Follow the same strategy as you would sparring empty hand: watch the middle of the chest. A boxer can watch the eyes because they won't get kicked in the head. Most people with a knife will telegraph just as much as one without, even experienced ones.

    Also, generally speaking, an experience street person who uses a knife can be recognized: they will very smoothing bob and weave while switching the knife hand to hand with little space between. Be more prepared for this (and getting a definite cut).

    Additions to this can be to watch and look for a pattern just as you would in sparring. People will be repetitive usually, even the ones who are trained. If they have a pattern, attack the weakness, even if the empty hand is it. Generally, a person may rush to tackle and pigstick you, Also, a person who uses a knife will only have one weapon, forgetting they have have a free hand, the knife. Attacking the hand without it can be "disarming", too. Learn the 12 knife disarms

    Rule 5: Demolish the attacker at the first (and possibly the only) opportunity.
    Rule 6: If you're successful, then run, don't call an ambulance or play CSI, just GO!
    Train hard! Fight harder![/quote]
  11. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    Just a few thoughts on this

    I think from my experience and training if you are against someone with a knife then you don't treat it like sparring. A weapon can give epople alot of confidence and they will come in hard and fast there is not alot of time to work out the pattern. wild slashing and thrusting of the knife is more likely what you will see.

    According to police in Europe the most common attack is a slash to the face, not a stab. unless bizzarely you are in France. in which case they favour stabbing (my guess is some sort of fencing connection)

    I wouldn't attack the empty hand

    It is very very dangerous to assume that a person witha knife won't punch and kick.
  12. canadiankyosa

    canadiankyosa Active Member

    With some extra thinking based on you thoughts, good point. Many times a person will also come in with a tackle and thrusting with the blade.
  13. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    many times they rush, many times they stab, slash etc.

    spend time knife sparring, you views will change including the running away aspect

    RTKDCMB Active Member

    Good list, I would modify rule 2 to include don't get so focused on the knife that you don't see the other guy attacking you from the side. I would also add in rule 4 that if you do manage to get a hold of the arm holding the knife, do not let go until the attacker is incapacitated, in other words don't release your grip on his arm to do something else (like a strike, for example, instead keep hold and strike with your other arm).
  15. Chris J

    Chris J Active Member

    There are plenty of 'what if's' I can't perceive every scenario. If you are aware of your surroundings you will notice the other guy (if there is one) walking with his friend before they have approached you. Use your judgement in each case. Focusing on the knife is important because an attacker will most likely use nothing else. They will believe that success will come from that knife, perseverance and options are limited to the knife in their case. Becasue, yes they're stupid
    I agree with your 4th rule addition. In saying that grappling is rare in a knife fight, very rare. Getting hold of a wrist is extremely lucky, and yes don't let go until they're immobilised, completely. I just don't want people to believe that everything they learn in a dojang is going to work.
    Anthony Hayward likes this.
  16. Raymond

    Raymond Active Member

    Solid advice there.
  17. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    as instructors we should have better answer than study a different art. even as student you should look for an answer in your art.

    running away works sometimes. but has to be done correctly, you may have to fight to get the chance to run away
    Chris J likes this.

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