Kukkiwons new poomsae

Discussion in 'Taekwondo Patterns' started by Brent Read, Dec 30, 2016.

  1. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Sure doesn't make it better.
     
  2. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Not true. It depends entirely on the circumstances. Changes aren't neccesarily improvements.
     
  3. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    The world changes. If you don't change with it, you get left behind and become a relic. You also miss the core principle of TaeKwonDo: adaptation to endless change.
     
  4. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Sorry if I won't join the KKW party, but I would much rather be a relic than part of you guys. TaeKwonDo is very low on the hierachy in public opinion, so the longer away from modernity I am, the more blessed I count myself.
     
  5. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Have fun. We'll be over here applying modern principles to old lessons learned and making progress.
     
  6. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Name one objective, universal, modern technique improvement by the Kukkiwon, that is not geared towards a specific sparring format.
     
  7. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Principles, not techniques.

    New rounds of hoshinsul seminars coming out of Korea. Exploration and dissemination of groundwork principles and increased understanding and application of known poomsae principles. Better, more modern stretching and conditioning information. Better, more modern information on injury prevention.
    More comprehensive principles around integrating Taekwondo into self protection and the law. Improved understanding of biomechanics and power generation.

    The list never ends...
     
  8. truejim

    truejim Member

    For what it's worth, I took a crack at writing instructions for Himchari by watching the video frame-by-frame. I'm sure there are mistakes this, but this is what I came up with:

    http://taekwondo.wikia.com/wiki/Himchari
     
    Gnarlie likes this.
  9. truejim

    truejim Member

  10. Matt

    Matt Member

    I must say these patterns demonstrate more sparring techniques than traditional patterns such as double kicks and 540 and 720 kicks. As a practitioner of both ITF and WTF I like this. Both styles of patterns are very traditional but this seems like a more modern take on the idea of a pattern.
     
  11. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Have you checked out the ones for the older age categories? Less jumping, more comprehensive hand techniques and basic kicking.
     
  12. Matt

    Matt Member

    Are you talking about WTF patterns or ITF ones. I train primarily ITF so I'm currently working on moon moo and choi yong. For my WTF studies im working on pyong won.
     
  13. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant the other new ones in the series Jim has been documenting...
     
  14. truejim

    truejim Member

  15. Matt

    Matt Member

    The biggest question I have here is why new patterns.... for those who study ITF General Choi created the original 24 and we haven't added or taken away any except Ju Che which is a weird situation. I don't quite understand why Kukkiwon is creating new patterns when they already have black belt patterns that I believe are sufficient.
     
  16. Matt

    Matt Member

    and doesn't this create some problems... I was watching some of the videos they have provided and it seems that you need to be somewhat flexible and in shape to do these patterns. We all know that not every single taekwondo competitor is at the perfect weight, and can do perfect side kick, or has the flexibility of a teenager, so doesn't this discriminate against those without flexibility, or grace, or can't perform certain moves due to age? Even in the lower patterns they are performing 540 and 720 hook kicks which are very difficult and not every student can master them even after hours upon hours upon hours of training.
     
  17. truejim

    truejim Member

    Reason #1: World-class competitors have become so good that they can perform the old forms essentially without any flaws at all, meaning it's really difficult to judge world-class poomsae competitions. So the Kukkiwon needed new, more challenging forms for world-class competitors. The new forms are intended only for that level of competition; your everyday practitioner is not intended to perform these new forms.

    Reason #2: That having been said, the old forms also don't incorporate a lot of the new "tricking" kicks that have come to be associated with "modern" taekwondo: triple roundhouse, 360 tornado, bally 540, etc. So another advantage of the new forms is that they incorporate many of the advanced techniques that have become "commonplace" in taekwondo over the last couple of decades. Even at the level of regional competitions, this gives competitors a way to showcase their ability to do the "newer" kinds of kicks.

    So yes, you're right...everyday practitioners probably cannot perform these forms well. But even for us everyday practitioners, the new forms give us something "fun" to work on. Meanwhile, and more importantly, for the world-class competitors, it gives them a way to differentiate themselves from the competition.
     
    Gnarlie likes this.
  18. Matt

    Matt Member

    So based on this would you then say that "traditional" Taekwondo is disappearing and it would be likely that these new "tricking" and usually not viable techniques in a fight will come into play more? Patterns used to have an emphasis on the roots of taekwondo, they emphasized the traditions and meanings of where we come from. By changing and adding and modernizing them doesn't that show that we are losing tradition??
     
  19. truejim

    truejim Member

    One sees questions like that as lot:

    "Taekwondo used to be for combat...now you're making it a sport as well. That takes away from combat."

    "Taekwondo used to be a sport...now you're adding tricking. That takes away from the sport."

    "Taekwondo used to be for tricking...now you're adding X. That takes away from the tricking."​

    I've never understood why some pundits think that ADDITION is actually subtraction! :)

    That having been said...do I think that adding tricking to taekwondo makes taekwondo less traditional? Personally, I don't think so. I think it just makes taekwondo bigger. Now you can do any or all of: self-defense, breaking, sparring, forms, and tricking. The traditional stuff is still there; it's not like it's being replaced.
     
    CoolTKD and Mario Ray Mahardhika like this.
  20. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    The later forms in this series contain hand techniques and kicks that were always in the syllabus but not covered in the poomsae. You should check them out. If anything, these forms have as much revived lost techiques as added more modern ones.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
     
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