Need help with kata/forms lineage

Discussion in 'The Instructors Room' started by Anthony Letourneau, Apr 22, 2016.

  1. Anthony Letourneau

    Anthony Letourneau New Member

    Hello everyone. I sure could use some guidance and assistance with a project I am doing for my organization. Sanshinkai Karate (Karate International) has 2 forms that we require for ranking. Kyu ranks are required to learn Hwa Rang (we call it Warlong) and Dan ranks are required to learn Koryo (we call it Korlio).

    I am creating a lineage for every form we do (Okinawan and Japanese) and I am unable to find ANY lineage to these forms. I have spent the past 3 days looking online, in reference books at the local university library and even tried speaking with local school owners in my area.

    Everywhere I looked I was able to find allot of history of Korean Martial Arts, but unlike with the Japanese and Okinawan forms, I am unable to find information that would lead me in the direction of who first started teaching these forms and/or where they learned them from.

    If anyone here could please share their knowledge of these two forms with me, it would be greatly appreciated and I would be willing to share my findings of the other forms we do with you (if you are interested)

    Thank you in advance for any help.

    Regards,

    A. Letourneau
    Karate International
     
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  3. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Hello. So we can help you, please clarify which Koryo you mean, as there are two. Does it begin with a twin knife hand block and low high side kick? Or is it twin knife hand block and a half-fist followed by a side kick?

    Hwa Rang was created by General Choi Hong Hi, but he took influences from other martial arts, so there are elements of Karate and White Crane, along with Shaolin Long Fist in his forms, amongst others.


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  4. Anthony Letourneau

    Anthony Letourneau New Member

    Hello Gnarlie - Thank you for your reply. The Koryo we do starts with double knife hands, then low/high side kick. I did not know there were 2 versions. Is one version vastly different from the other, and/or have a different meaning/purpose? Most of the forms we do are Okinawan/Japanese influenced so I am not new to the idea of "a small change here/there" in the forms. :)

    In my attempt to find this information on my own I stumbled across several online sites that stated: "1965 the Korean Taekwondo association formed an ad-hoc committee to create new forms". I was unable to find anything online that would expand on that. So, the Korean forms, after 1955, were created and developed by a committee? I don't want to spread wrong information, so any insight you may have on this would be helpful.

    Thank you again for your assistance, I truly do appreciate you taking the time to help me.
     
  5. Anthony Letourneau

    Anthony Letourneau New Member

    I have another question about Hwa Rang that i neglected to put in my previous reply. Is the Hwa Rang kata of ceremonial importance and function (i.e. celebrating the victory by the Hwa Rang soldiers over the mongolian's) or does it have bunkai (besides from the obvious techniques)
     
  6. Oerjan

    Oerjan Active Member

    Hwarang was the very first Hyung (Kata) to be created for Oh Do Kwan Taekwondo. It was created in 1955 by Choi Hong Hi, Han Cha Kyo and Nam Tae Hi (Source: George Vitale private correspondance. He is a highly renowned historian that specializes in Chang Hon Taekwon-Do). I have not read anywhere that there was any ceremonial importance on it, allthough they named the form Hwarang to give it nationalistic conotations (to highlight the korean patriotism). The symbolism in the form can easily be read on most ITF Taekwon-Do home pages (29 movements, the name of the form etc).

    As for Koryo they are very different. I`ll see if I can find any links to show you (at least of the older one). Currently there are in my opinion three versions. Or two versions where the oldest one has two similar versions. The oldest one is taught by GM Kim Pyung Soo. It is taught the way he learned it in the mid 60s. It contains more openhanded techniques, and it is more reminicent of the Chang Moo Kwan form Jong Kwon (long fist) in some parts. Version two is a slightly revised one that conforms more to the mainstream kukki style we have today, and is primarely closed hand (many will say this is the same form but slightly different). The third one (the one you practise) was introduced around 1972 along with the taegeuk forms. It was indeed made by a comitte of different People from different Kwan (Schools). The People were:

    • Kwak Kun Sik (Chung Do Kwan/ Captain of millitary academy and therefore also Oh Do Kwan)
    • Park Hae Man (Chung Do Kwan)
    • Hyun Jong Myun (Chung Do Kwan/ Oh Do Kwan)
    • Lee Yong Sup (Song Moo Kwan)
    • Lee Kyo Yun (Yoon Moo Kwan/ and founder of Han Moo Kwan)
    • Kim Son Bae (Chang Moo Kwan)
    These were the men responsible for the Palgwe, original Koryo and the rest of the current black belt forms of KTA/Kukkiwon recognized by the WTF.

    The "New" Koryo was made by the same People With the addition of:

    • Bae Yong Ki (Ji Do Kwan)
    • Lee Chong Woo (Ji Do Kwan)
    • Han Young Tae (Moo Duk Kwan)

    So I do hope this helps With Your questions :)

    Videolink: (original Koryo With primarely closed hands)

     
    kmorrisonnyc likes this.
  7. Anthony Letourneau

    Anthony Letourneau New Member

    Hello Oerjan - WOW that's some great information about these 2 forms. Thank you VERY MUCH for taking the time to respond with such great detail. I have added the information you gave me (as well as what Gnarlie provided) to my research material.

    The video you provided is a great reference for me personally. You are correct, the version of Koryo we do is nothing like what is shown on the video. I really like this version and I will be speaking with GM Rob Olevsky & GM Jansen Wellendorf about adding this to our curriculum.

    After watching the video several times, I can see some elements of the katas that we do: Bassai Dai (Shotokan) , Kusanku (Isshin Ryu) & Gankaku (Shotokan).

    I know that some of the terminology I use may be different, but the techniques are the same. :)

    Time stamp - :14 - :16 (side catch to sidekick / back fist combination is throughout Kusanku)
    Time stamp - :25 - :27 (open hand back fist to horizontal elbow strike can also be seen in Bassai Dai)
    Time stamp - :29 - :34 (the three mid level block sequence can be found in Gankaku)

    I do have a question about the punches in the video. It looks like the punch/strike at :13 and :18 are not a closed fist, but striking with the fingers folded inward (we call this a 4-knuckle strike). Is this correct?

    I want to thank you again for the wonderful information and again for taking the time to help me better understand these forms. If you are at all interested in getting a copy of what I am putting together I would be more than happy to share with you.
     
  8. Oerjan

    Oerjan Active Member

    Thanks Anthony. I would be delighted to see what you write/have written. You are correct in that the form contains two 4 knuckle strikes:)
     

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