New here - from New York City

Discussion in 'The Dojang' started by AikoTKD, May 22, 2013.

  1. AikoTKD

    AikoTKD New Member


    I found these forums by just doing a random search for something TKD related and came across a thread that addressed my issue. So, I decided to join.

    I am a 46 year old female from New York City and I received my 1st Dan a little over 2 years ago. I train 3 times a week and cross train with mountain biking, weight lifting and spinning. I have degenerative disc disease otherwise I'd train more days. (My back appreciates practicing every other day.)

    I have no idea what "kup" means and our studio is not affiliated with any larger organization. I don't know if I can offer any advice or assistance but I see that I can learn quite a bit from just reading the posts here.

    If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll get an avatar one day - I promise. (When my hair is done!)

    Thank you.

    UK-Student and John McNally like this.
  2. Anthony Hayward

    Anthony Hayward Active Member

    Hi and welcome to the forum.. There are always plenty of topics going on for you to read or post responses too.. have fun with it and best of luck with your training....
    The "Kup" is the TKD term that is used for the colour belt levels. i.e. a white belt is a 10th kup, yellow tip is a 9th kup, a yellow belt is a 8th kup and so on.. It goes backwards.. starts at 10th, 9th, 8th through to 1st kup (black tip)
    UK-Student likes this.
  3. John McNally

    John McNally Active Member

    Hi Aiko and welcome to the forum, enjoy and engage in conversation as we all look forward to everybodys input and opinions.
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  4. AikoTKD

    AikoTKD New Member

    Thank you. I am on my 3rd TKD school and have never heard of that term "kup". Now I know. :)
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  5. UK-Student

    UK-Student Active Member

    All I can say is wow, you must be quite an Athlete!

    Which set of patterns do you do at your school? The set that starts with Chon Ji, the set that starts with Taeguk 1 or another set?
  6. AikoTKD

    AikoTKD New Member

    Hi UK-Student. Thank you for the compliment. I can do a full split too. :)

    We call them forms. I have never heard of patterns until I came to this forum. I have learned so much by just reading the threads. Everyone has to much good information and thoughts to contribute.

    We do Tagu 1,2 and 3, and Pion-on 1,2,3,4 and 5 for the low belt forms. I am a first degree black belt and we do (I do not know the correct spelling) Choji and Base forms. I was told these forms are older or more traditional.

    Thank you.
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  7. John Hulslander

    John Hulslander Active Member

    Because Korean is written in a different character set, and usually spelled phonetically in the US terms are naturally expected to be spelled differently from school to school based on affiliation.

    Some call them forms (we do) some patterns, some use Korean terms Poomse, Hyung and or Tul. They are all essentially the same.

    It sounds like you are in a traditional school. I would guess that your GM (assuming you have one) prefers a fold over dobok to the V Neck that is predominant these days.

    Our club (In Ohio affiliated with a West Virginia GM) also does the Pyong Ahn Forms (our GM's spelling)
    They are older more traditional. The stances are longer and deeper.

    In any case welcome to the board.
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  8. UK-Student

    UK-Student Active Member

    That's interesting. I am not sure on all the forms you mention but it sounds like a smorgasbord of forms from across the styles so perhaps a good basis.

    When you say "Tagu", I am not exactly sure what that might be. There are "Taegeuk" forms practised by the WTF/Kukki style. There are I believe 8 of these. Does it look like this?


    Alternatively, the ITF style has Saju exercises. There are three of these so it could be a closer fit:


    ^ This one is "Saju Jirugi", the "Four directional punch".

    I'm fairly sure that these are the forms that some people spell Pyung-Ahn as there are five of these. These forms are actually the oldest and they are practically identical in nature the the five early forms of Shotokan Karate that are called Heian or Pinan. They were originally one form called Chan-an and these are by far the oldest. Most of the moves from the ITF and WTF forms are based on these forms. These are the originals that everyone else uses as a template.

    Here's the first one:


    Let me know if this is them or whether I got it wrong.

    Chonji and so on are the forms from the ITF. There are 25 of these (though most schools only use 24/25). They are listed here - do you recognise any of the other names?

    Not sure what "base" is.

    As noted the 5 Pion-on / Pyung Ahn / Heian / Pinan forms are the only ones with any tradition that go back as far as the 19th Century and beyond. All the other forms were thought up from the 1950s onward so none are particularly more traditional than one another though they are all based on traditional techniques from the old Karate forms.

    So basically it seems like you are using a mixture of forms from all the groups (assuming Tagu = Taegeuk, then forms from both ITF, WTF and old style TKD/Karate), including the oldest forms from Karate. It's an interesting approach for sure and means whoever you meet in TKD you probably have at least one form in common with them!
  9. John Hulslander

    John Hulslander Active Member

    Given some of her forms, I assume Base is Bassai. Sometimes this is called Palsek. It is a form that is for first dan candidates primarily in Tang Soo do

  10. AikoTKD

    AikoTKD New Member

    Yes, we do have the fold over dobok (with the right fold over the left). We also do not believe in printing the studio's name on the dobok nor do we have tape on our belts or matching trim to belts. It's very simple. We do have a GM in another state. He has several high ranking students who teach along the east coast. I was told our forms are older and more traditional and our walking stance (could be called a front stance) is deep but our back stance isn't so deep. I was also told not to go so deep on my horse stance in the Chogi form. Go figure. :) Thank you for the welcome.
    John Hulslander likes this.
  11. AikoTKD

    AikoTKD New Member

    This is nearly identical to the Bassai that I perform. The ending was different and some of the positions of the arms along with the arm preparation is very different from what I do. But this is it. And yes, "Base" was definitely, uh, way off on the spelling. I have heard of Tang Soo Do but am not sure what it is. There seems to be a variety of styles in Tae Kwon Do and coming here just confirms that. I do study Chung So Kwan style of Tae Kwon Do.

    It seemed that when I became a black belt that the forms all of a sudden intensified in difficulty and they seem longer too. It took longer to memorize it and even 2 years later, to get each move just right. It certainly is a challenge. But a very good one. I enjoy form because I can do this by myself, get into my own space (in my mind) and focus on the beautiful movements.
  12. AikoTKD

    AikoTKD New Member

    UK Student,

    I actually asked my teacher about the difference between Tagu and Tageuk forms. This is not my first school and in the past I have done Taguek forms. Of course, I do not remember them exactly as the time between schools was about 14 years. My current teacher said there was a difference in the forms and in the pronunciation of the words. According to him they are indeed, different. Tagu and Pion-on forms follow the pattern of the capital letter I.

    I found Tagu 1 on Youtube. In my old school (as I jogged my old memory) it was referred to as Basic form 1. All the punches are mid-punches. Tagu 2 would simply be high punches. In my current school, Tagu 1 and 2 are white belt forms.

    Ko's Martial Arts Academy Tae Kwon Do Basic I Form 1 - YouTube

    Tagu 3, or Basic 3, starts with a side block and not a down block. There is a mixture of mid punches to the side and high punches going up and down the I. You can see it here however this martial artist does it slightly different. This is yellow belt form in our school.

    Basic Form 3 - YouTube

    The illustration you provided for Pion-on 1 is nearly identical to what we do but there are some differences. We don't down block in #3 We go straight to the hammer fist. I'm lost from 10 through 16 but the end is nearly the same with those 4 knife hand blocks. So perhaps it evolved?

    I went to a martial arts competition 2 years ago to observe and I did see some black belts do Bassai. I was happy to see that.
  13. John Hulslander

    John Hulslander Active Member

    Looks like you do some of what we do as well. Although we call the Tagu's, Kee Cho forms. Also we have 8 Palguey forms in addition for our first dan.

    FWIW, our GM learned Tang Soo Do in Korea before there was an official Taekwondo. He just chose to affiliate with the WTF.

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