Proper way of preforming "FORMS "

Discussion in 'General Taekwondo Discussions' started by Barry Ballard, May 12, 2012.

  1. Barry Ballard

    Barry Ballard New Member

    Please dont "misread ' into what I am saying. There a many great Tae Kwon Do practiners out there. However. " Bouncing" while you are doing Katas is not o good practice. In 1973. When I began my trainning. Bouncing meant, " Telagrafing" your intentions. Moving in a straight line made your moves much harder to read;
    which in turn, made them much more effective. Anyone agree ?
     
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  2. Brian

    Brian Member

    Mmmmm...define bouncing. Do you mean the sine wave effect a la ITF (?)?
     
  3. Barry Ballard

    Barry Ballard New Member

    Not sure what "sine wave" is, but yes. Could you enlghten me?
     
  4. Barry Ballard

    Barry Ballard New Member

    If I move my body in anyway, before I attack. You, my opponent, will react in a defensive manner.
     
  5. ninjanurse

    ninjanurse New Member

    No "sine wave" here....it's an interesting concept-seems very exaggerated and less effective than push/pull of hips, shoulders, knees, ankles, and feet. Just my opinion.
     
  6. Pat Thomson

    Pat Thomson Member

    I noticed that with the ITF pattern videos, in Rhee Taekwondo Australia we do the ITF patterns without the bounce as its a waste of energy and makes the patterns look a bit weir to be honest.
     
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  7. Kevin

    Kevin Administrator Staff Member

    We do the sine wave in ITF. It just feels normal to me as that's always the way we do it. I did my first WTF pattern the other week and the lack of sine wave looked and felt strange to me...though trying to change something like that will always be difficult at first. You don't realise how much muscle memory plays a part in these things.
     
  8. Gazzer

    Gazzer Active Member

    When you say "forms" do you mean the Patterns or the "Taegeuk"

    If it is then Bouncing :confused: I dont get what you mean... you dont bounce in patterns.

    Or do you mean keeping your body in perfect level during the entire Taegeuk, how would that be possible?
     
  9. Barry Ballard

    Barry Ballard New Member

    It can be accomplished with practice. Of course your level will change somewhat when you kick, it should just be kept to a minium. {example] Its hard to see just a "fist" coming at you; than the arm swinging it
     
  10. Barry Ballard

    Barry Ballard New Member

    I understand. It is indeed, hard to tame old habits. However never cease in improving the art your teacher was so gracious to teach.
     
  11. Tc Liming

    Tc Liming New Member

    I find that when you want your forms to look good and sharp, you practice them, "Good and Sharp" should bounching be added to your practice of "Forms"? Well, is that what your Master Instructor suggest his black belts to instruct you to do? In WTF, every thing is "Shown" Your Dolbock Snaps with every punch, every Kick, Every block (except for the Net block) if you want to know what your forms should look like ask your Master Instructor for a DVD if they provide one or go to www.taekwondoanimals.com and watch eaither the ITF form Videos or the WTF Videos.
     
  12. Leighton

    Leighton Member

    'Sine wave' within ITF is used to get the whole body moving when peforming a technique to get the whoe body mass into a given movement. When performed within a pattern or form they are normally exagerated and help to get the practitioner to relax thier body during the transiton between techniques. It could also be said that the wave in the sea is constantly moving, never static and can cause utter devestation when unleashed.
     
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  13. Barry Ballard

    Barry Ballard New Member

    Good points. Respect for "Sabaenim" very important. Best self defense weapon, is to show respect to all
     
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  14. Jon Sloan

    Jon Sloan Member

    In my early years of training, I was taught that a lateral hip rotation (left and right, not up and down) into each technique was the proper way to generate power. My instructor always taught us that when we are going through hyung, we needed to do it as if we were "in a low shack with our heads brushing the ceiling...not to let our heads break through the roof". This was mostly to keep our stances even and utilize our transitions to make them smooth and not choppy.

    Now, this is speaking from personal training/experience, but to me, seeing the practitioner keeping their head and body at a consistent level makes the hyung smoother, and makes it easier to focus on watching and examining the technique and flow.

    I can understand where Gen. Choi was coming from, using the forward/down motion to end in the strongest part of the technique for maximum impact. I also agree that this could be problematic in self-defense situations where a person who is trained in sine-wave would want to rise slightly out of habit through training, and possibly give away their intentions.
     
  15. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan New Member

    By bouncing, I suspect your instructor meant the body bobbing up and down as you move in the forms. The head should remain level unless the form dictates a shifting in the stance. Using Taegeuk (2) yijang as an example, apseogi to apkubi (movements 1-2, 3-4, 7-8, and 9-10) takes you from a more upright front stance to a lower longer stance. In the same pumse, when performing the consecutive momtong makki (movements 5 and 6) and consecutive olgul makki (movements 11 and 12), these are all performed in an upright front stance; ap seogi, and your torso and head should remain level and not drop as you step.

    I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with Chang Hon tul, so I cannot pick one out to give an example and I'm not familiar enough with the sine wave concept and what it is supposed to look like to evaluate the comments made about it.
     
  16. Rcoskrey

    Rcoskrey New Member

    Well, ITF patterns are defined by a sound wave motion. A slight up and down movement in between movements.
    It looks like up and down movements. If you watch ITF patterns closely you can see this. I do it because that is
    how I am trained to.
     
  17. lorraine

    lorraine Member

    In wtf tkd we never bounce. Our head remains level . The power comes from the hips .One needs to be relaxed, tensing and twisting at the last minute into possition .If you whip your hips into your stance you will feel the power exploding out through your foot if you are kicking or hand if you are striking or blocking. Its all physics!
     
    Daniel Sullivan likes this.
  18. Jon Sloan

    Jon Sloan Member

    I can understand that. If I was trained that way early on, I would do the same. You usually try to stay true to what you were originally taught.
     
  19. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan New Member

    I've seen Chang Hon tul performed and it wasn't at all what I would call bouncing. The movement was specific and consistent. If I'm not mistaken, the concept of sine wave is to use the weight transfer from the slight sinking to add power to the technique.

    With sine wave, the sink with the movement and the rise at the start of the next are done purposefully and consistently, whereas bouncing up and down with the torso is simply a byproduct of improper movement.
     
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  20. Chris J

    Chris J Active Member

    General Choi designed TKD to be a self defence based around simple science that reflected natural human movement. Take walking down the street for instance, our heads don't remain on the same level. If we mapped the head while we walk, tracing forward motion as well as up and down, a sine wave pattern appears. An accentuated motion in all of the muscles, not just the hips, creates more momentum and thus more power. Utilising more muscles gives a greater potential to produce more speed.
    Patterns can be performed at an exaggerated motion to show how power is generated by sine wave motion. I teach this way to juniors as it makes the motion easier for them to to see.
    The proper way to perform patterns is the way your instructor trains you. I learnt from an instructor that said keep your head level, he was a 2nd dan. I evolved as a martial artist and 2 years ago found a 7th dan master, now 8th dan. He too understands the concept of keeping the head level. He taught me to move in a sine wave motion.
    With each board 3/4 an inch thick, I've gone from 3 to 4 with a sidekick held by people. In a breaking frame I can break 5. My goal is to reach 8
     

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