Roundhouse kick by me on heavybag (VIDEO)

Discussion in 'General Taekwondo Discussions' started by Pleonasm, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member



    I got this comment by a Kickboxer. I'm curious about the highlighted sentence


    "You're not exactly a speed demon, but a very competent kicker nonetheless. You have good power because of your long legs and knowing how to swing your arms correctly. All in all, pretty solid."

    Now this surprises me because I was really gunning for speed here (ouch!) Did he mean that point A to B was slow?
     
  2.  
  3. Mario Ray Mahardhika

    Mario Ray Mahardhika Active Member

    To prove, try to kick in succession at least 4 times in a row, both using the same leg and interchanging.
     
  4. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    Well that's because I dig into the target. But technically, the time from when my foot is raised to when it lands is less than a second. That's fast to me.
     
  5. Mario Ray Mahardhika

    Mario Ray Mahardhika Active Member

    "Fast" is a relative term in this case, I consider 2 kicks from different leg (3 for same leg) in less than a second as fast. Typically one cannot judge from a single kick, but using your positioning as a base, it can be derived that your subsequent kick cannot be done in the same speed as the first one. Also count the speed you put the kicking leg back to ground, that kickboxer might actually talk about this. And your roundhouse looks more kickboxing than Taekwondo.
     
  6. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    How so?
     
  7. Mario Ray Mahardhika

    Mario Ray Mahardhika Active Member

    Wide, not so snappy, uses shin instead of instep. It's kinda in between actually, since you rotate your supporting leg, but only slightly. Kickboxers will statically position it to the final degree right before the kicking leg is lifted, while Taekwondoins start forward then rotate it as the kicking leg goes.
     
  8. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    I agree. But is it really that uncommon to employ these hybridizations?

    Have a look at this fight:



    That ITF guy clearly doesn't kick the way forms advocate, yet he is clearly an ITF purist.
     
  9. Mario Ray Mahardhika

    Mario Ray Mahardhika Active Member

    Depends on the competition. In (non-beginner) pure WTF/ITF? Seldom. In MMA? Often.
    He's adjusting his style. If you look at his first kicks, those are all TKD. But as he got fatigued and realized that this is not the same point sparring as he used to know (no need to push too much power, speed is more important), he changed his style to concentrate less on speed. Despite giving impact, the amount of energy required to perform correct and fast TKD kick is huge. This guy doesn't look like an athlete who trains for a long fight with consistent fast movements (I don't know if any current athletes are trained for this, but we, 90-00's athletes, were), but rather a short one. I believe he did expect the fight to end in the first 2 minutes or so, in which it didn't happen so he needed to change strategy otherwise he would lose due to out of breath.
     
  10. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    I wrote "form kicks". ITF form kicks are not point kicks... And he didn't throw a single one. He threw sport kicks.
     
  11. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    [
    How about this one?

     
  12. Mario Ray Mahardhika

    Mario Ray Mahardhika Active Member

    A little bit better, but still quite a distance to TKD authentic one. In particular:
    • Supporting foot should rotate 170°-180°, you need around 10-15° more. This is where the power of roundhouse kick comes, so don't be shy to rotate a little more
    • Probably due to above, your upperbody doesn't form straight line with the kicking foot in the final position. Specifically, it moves to the kicked side as the effect of supporting foot stop rotating (which also holds your kicking power back)
    • You raise your kicking leg diagonally, which is good for sparring, but has its own drawback. The original kick can be performed well (i.e. it will have significant impact to target) in an area whose width is no wider than the distance between your feet in junbi position. This modified one cannot, you will kick the side walls first
    GM Kang Shin Chul together with Mooto once made a good instructional video. The roundhouse kick part is this:

     
  13. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    Funny you should bring that up, I have switched my kicking technique completely, and the biggest difficulty is keeping the rotation I had before. I don't rotate the supporting foot enough now with the new technique.
     
  14. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

  15. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    Remember though I'm ITF. It states in the ITF encyklopedia "supporting foot should point 45 degrees outwards."
     
  16. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    I'm terrible at math but isn't this roughly 45 degrees?
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Mario Ray Mahardhika

    Mario Ray Mahardhika Active Member

    Assuming they count from the target position instead of kicking foot position, that translates to 135°. I don't know the science behind ITF design, but it's limiting from my POV. Really you can't get the best out of a roundhouse kick with this smaller rotation. AFAIR ITF is closer to karate origin of early TKD, so that might be related since karate's roundhouse kick looks similar in this regard.
    I think yes, from the video you seem to face southeast initially.
     
  18. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    Is my crouched posture OK?
     
  19. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    But the rotation you advocate would have to involve a pre pivot, no? And pre pivoting reduces power. Otherwise I don't see how to time the rotation with the impact point.
     
  20. Mario Ray Mahardhika

    Mario Ray Mahardhika Active Member

    Depends on your interpretation of pre pivot. TKD ready position makes feet face either left or right (this puts your guard on by reducing attackable dimension), that is too much to bring rear leg doing roundhouse kick efficiently. By pre pivoting the supporting foot forward, you reduce 90° of that useless burden (because we assume opponent is always straight in front, not on either side or diagonally). This doesn't reduce power at all, because what's needed to get power is kick depth (along with centripetal force) and that can be achieved only by rotating the supporting foot as much as possible but not too much while rotating the kicking foot right when it's about to be extended.
     
  21. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Member

    Compare with my sidekick. There shouldn't be such disparity between basic techniques. My foot control is poor but it's light years better than my roundhouse kick. More fluid.

    Why do they say overall TKD skills are measured by the sidekick? The dolyo chagi is a much harder kick!


     

Share This Page