the biggest threat to a man is another man, the biggest threat to a women is a man.

Discussion in 'Self Defense' started by michael mckenna, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. michael mckenna

    michael mckenna Active Member

    ok ive been thinking alot on this and ive seen alot of self defence techniques and those techniques being taught to both genders, now the biggest threat to a man on the street is another man, the least threat to a man is a woman, the biggest threat to a woman is a man (you know why so i wont say it cos i dont like the word) and the least threat to a woman is another woman. now this is not meant to seem sexist at all.

    should woman be taught the same self defense techniques as a man in the same art, because for both genders they have the same threat just a different outcome of the attack,

    obviously woman should learn how to defend themselves against another woman thats a fact but its not the biggest threat a woman could encounter, the biggest threat and one of the worst things that can happen to woman other then losing a child is and i really hate this word, rape.

    SO should woman in martial arts learn after the basic fundamentals of course learn how to prevent a rape, if a man pins a woman to the ground, a woman who has only learned to defend against a stand up attack but what if it goes wrong ? they can be tackled to the ground (so can a man but its for a different reason).

    my instructor has talked about this alot, and people are becoming even more scared of this happing to a loved one, and i conclude that this threat should be a major thing to defend against when learning martial arts, i have a girlfriend, i have a sister, a 5 year old niece (who is the most important person in my life) and a mum, and alot of men do and this thought of something happening to them scares them to death me included.

    so why does this not get directly taught how to prevent this in martial arts. i know a few minorty groups who do see this as a problem and teach woman how to defend against it, unfortunatly most places dont and ive had alot of instructors from other martial arts and federations say they dont teach that mostly because they dont know how to teach a woman to defend against that.

    so from my research a small group teaches this defence, why is that ? and when i say ive talked to alot of instructors i mean alot alot, i even talked to a womans self defence instructor who once said to me, that the woman in her class dont like to think about it, and think its a taboo subject, now thats coming from a female instructor.

    so what is going on why isnt this being taught in every martial arts class or self defence class ?.

    also anyone on here that does teach the defence for this good on you, you are making alot of woman safer and giving alot of husbands, boyfrieds, fathers, brothers, uncles, grandads, and male friends peace of mind.

    i hope this doesnt seem sexist at all and if it is sincere apologies but i feel it needs to be confronted on why its looked at seriously but not taught seriously. thank you and peace be with you and your loved ones
  2. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Good questions Michael

    I'm not sure your assumptions about greatest threat are fully valid. If you put a weapon in to the equation, it all looks a bit different. One of the most common non-out-patient post-fight hospitalisations in the UK is 'stabbed by the girlfriend while fighting the boyfriend'. You never know who is a greater threat. I'm willing to bet a few people carry equalisers where you are ;)

    The rape taboo - does it need to be taught explicitly as 'this is a rape defence', or can it be taught as a mount reversal, or escape from the guard with appropriate striking? Most people are willing to train escapes, but not many people want to come to a course called 'anti rape' or 'rape defence'.

    If ground work is not taught in your class, I would recommend getting out and doing you own physical research if it is something you feel strongly about:

    Take some BJJ but adapt the mount and guard reversals to escapes in a non-sport context. or...

    Get to a SD based ground fighting seminar, where they've already done the above work and pressure tested. Escapes to stand up, finish and run from every conceivable ground position, including those associated with sexual assault. I've done it and would recommend it - it's worth travelling for. Look for IKMF ground fighting seminars in your country and spend the time and money on it.

    Then incorporate those escapes into your training (you can make it your specialism in the run up to 1st dan), and nobody has to say that word you don't like ;)

    Additional thought: physical self defence is the last step in fairly large hierarchy of measures to avoid ANY assault (including sexual). In a way, it's closing the gate after the horse has bolted. There is much that can be done awareness-wise to avoid becoming the victim of ANY kind of assault, and it is on those measures that real self defence instructors focus. That might be why you're not getting many physical solutions.

    I'm not getting into the 'educate rapists not to rape' or 'don't blame the victim' arguments - assault is assault, and as far as I am concerned, avoidance measures are similar, male or female. Not to take those measures because that blames the victim is in my view unwise. We live in a big world with some bad people in it.

    I would say that there is a need for a physical solution too though, because in many rape situations, the rapist is known to the victim, and a rape may only become a rape when the pair are alone and already in close physical proximity. There needs to be a way to physically enforce 'get off me.'
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
  3. michael mckenna

    michael mckenna Active Member

    part of the GTF syllabus is ground defence, along with basic self defence, advanced self defense, basic weapon defense advanced weapon defense, throws and ground work that pretty mutch covers everything, my instructor who is technical director of GTF scotland desgined the ground work defence with some help from a bjj friend of his he thought of the idea and his friend helps him practice them, he teaches me alot of it, considering i get a private lesson like 3 times a week which is £10 an hour, i actually got told to go to a bjj gym and sparr with the people there only there best can actually keep me down lol but im getting better and better at escapes which will help with a mixed martial arts/ mixed martial sports career and teach what is essentially needed for teaching womans defence
  4. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    I would be careful about directly taking competition style grapling and putting it in to self defence.

    When i am teaching women ground stuff I teach the basic buck and roll but we also concentrate alot of aggression training. and 'dirty fighting' bites, eye gouges, weapons of oppurtunity all come in to play. in th civilised world sometimes people need permission to be animals
  5. michael mckenna

    michael mckenna Active Member

    by competition style grappling do you mean bjj or judo ?
  6. michael mckenna

    michael mckenna Active Member

    also i dont do bjj i learn ground defence from my instructor and practice it in the local bjj gym who are more then happy to help as long as i pay them £4 an hour lol my instructor creates his own ground defence and refines it with the bjj instructor of the gym
  7. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    Either, or wrestling or any grappling done in a competitive format. The situation and even the goal is very different
  8. Chris J

    Chris J Active Member

    Spot on here Finlay.... I teach specifics to women. This includes the fact that when a man wants to rape a woman he has to get past her knickers. This takes one or both hands, I say to the women in the course....'let them try' it then serves as a trigger for them to take advantage of 'busy hands'.....I teach the buck, roll and bite technique, drive your knee into the tail bone roll to either side and don't just nibble, grab a hunk of flesh.... has lots of DNA. The thing with a bite, it hurts EVERYWHERE! I also tell them the reality of having a mouthful of their attacker's blood and a piece of their flesh, which when spat at the attacker, will frighten the pants off them. If a potential victim presents too much trouble the attacker will give up or risk drawing attention to themselves.
    To answer your first question: Yes teach them both the same. Most things work on both genders. Eyes, throat, ears, nose, groin, knees, ribs, get the idea.
    I would forget competition for street self can put me in a choke hold or an arm bar, but if I got a chunk of your flesh locked in my will let go, and no ref is gonna stop me.
  9. Finlay

    Finlay Active Member

    Just to futher move this topic on i decided to look over what was said before. To the above statment i would say a definate No. to say they have the same threat but a different outcome doesn't really make a lot of sense, the outcome is the threat. the big issue is that women have a phyisical disadvantage. So where i might be teaching to punch with a closed fist to a guy i would not teach that to a woman who was spcifically looking to defend herself as oppose to investigate an art form

    this is one of the biggest untold problems of the martial arts. most teachers are men, it is then unreasonable that they will be aware of every issue a woman faces in self defence. I have seen quite silly things over the years telling small women to block a large man's punch etc. This is of course a bad idea but if that is all the instuctor has been told then what else have they got to pass on.

    We don;t even have to go to women's self defense to see bad technique. there is a video on youtube show what is meant to be taekwondo knife defence. It is nothing short of ridiculous and the movements shown belong more in hollywood than in serious dojang. Movements like kicking the knife out of someone's hand, or spinning around and throwing and attacker, the worse one what were the defender brought the attacker t his knees and then did some sort of a neck break move. apart from being totally unrealistic to openly teach and or show that that kind of reaction is ok is to my mind irresponsible.

    i come across this alot, people hiding in the dojang and not letting the 'bad' stuff in. Occasionally in my trainng i allow my student to shout and swear at each other. I keep the repect in training and i don;t go and start swearing at student when it is normal class time but we must build up a resistance to the whole spectrum of violence not just physical attacks. in another part of my life i was watching a guy give a presentation during which he swore. one of the ladies left crying just becasue of that. Now, i can't judge her on her reaction becasue it was in an office setting and she wasn't my student, but if she was then she would have to get passed that before the physical defence would be effective.

    This is worth a thread on it's own. I have been struggling with the blaming the victum part for a bit. I have seen it mentioned in many discussions. It seems to me there is a bit of an elephant in the room with this. If not people would not discuss it as much as they do. i think maybe the word blame is incorrect but i need some more time to formulate an argurment

    I think we need ot leave sexism at the door. Women's self defence is by its very nature sexist, i.e. something made especailly for women becasue the mainstream doesn't alway fit their needs. it is true and we need to get over it if we are to deal with the situation


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