WT and ITF set to launch joint organization

Discussion in 'General Taekwondo Discussions' started by Pleonasm, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    And yet in those demo vids, the ITF proponents demo both double kicks and tonchagi (what you call tornado). They are not hard to learn for a competent BB proponent.

    The majority of KKW kicks appear in the encyclopedia, and the bulk of ITF technique also appears in the KKW textbook. There are a few exceptions, but it's certainly not a bulk difference.

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  2. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Anyway, I gotta go train one of my TKD groups now. Later

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  3. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    That’s why I wrote: "the emphasis is so different". 99% of the techniques are the same with modifications, but the emphasis in training is ironically geared towards the 1% that simply does not exist in the ITF curriculum. There has been cross-pollination between sports which have made tornados a scoring technique in ITF sparring, but strictly speaking, you will not be taught it unless the instructor has some fetisch for that technique and want to mix things up.

    And double roundhouse kicks will not be seen at all...
     
  4. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Rubbish. You just had an experience that wasn't representative of what kukki tkd is.
    Except in demonstration by the world class teams, obviously. Umm...



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  5. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    It is if the school abides by the WT sparring format, which promotes that type kicking

    You can't base it on demos in which the primary goal was unification. The hostility and in-group/-out-group mentally wouldn't exist if they were" "very similar" branches of TaeKwonDo. Besides, demos tend to include flash and fluff that is not relevant for the average student.
     
  6. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Why? Why is that a good thing in and of itself? The common denominator is that they are both called TaeKwonDo in modern time, albeit spelled differently in English, at least. If it weren't for General Choi's unfortunate insisting (which I dare say he deeply regretted years later), Kukkiwon-TKD would have still been labelled Tae Soo Do and we wouldn't have this discussion.
     
  7. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Missing the point. A Muay Thai kick is not hard to learn for a competent TKD black belt either.
     
  8. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    I would also like to stress that the North Korean demo team regularly exhibits acrobatics, sommersaults, spins, that have nothing to do with ITF and more a promotion of their country.
     
  9. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    As a small part of a much larger martial art.

    The tribalism exists even within individual clubs inside ITF and Kukki / WT respectively. It's no indication of similarity or otherwise, just that people like tribes.
    And therefore it is not part of the martial art?


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    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  10. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Unity is the most important part of the martial art of TKD, both in the sense of mind-body-spirit and in the sense of peaceful interaction with others. Are you aware of the tenets and the Oath?

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  11. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    And yet they are included as part of a demonstration of the martial art.

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  12. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Interesting that you accept that from the ITF, but can't seem to see that WT events based on sparring and demonstration techniques are exactly the same thing. What appears in demo and sparring is not necessarily representative of the wider martial art.

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  13. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    The Creed of Taekwondo Practitioners:
    1. I will keep both my body and mind strong and lead a righteous life (Individual)
    2. I will serve my parents and love my family (family)
    3. I will respect the people including my teachers and elders and be faithful to my friends (society)
    4. I will help my neighbors, serving my community and country (country)
    5. I will live in harmony with nature and contribute to the peace and prosperity of mankind (world)



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  14. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    The totality of the content is irrelevant in deciding how similar they are as daily practices. What matters is what they actually emphasize in training. I have formally trained both. I suspect you haven't, or else you would know that they are not very similar at all. It would be very misleading to tell a beginner that it doesn’t matter if he/she picks a WT-affiliated school compared to ITF in terms of how the training will be.
     
  15. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Your limited experience of Kukki TKD is not representative of the martial art. We've been around this loop in your thinking.

    In the beginner phase, the two may appear dissimilar, but to an experienced eye, there are more similarities than differences. The factors that appear dissimilar have more to do with tribalism than actual necessity.

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  16. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    You don't even have beginners experience in ITF. Dabbling in ITF patterns is not sufficient experience. You are not going to convince me that ITF is more similar to KKW than Shotokan Karate. The only reason you're clinging to this lost cause is due to a shared name and some sort of martial arts equivalence to political correctness. Is it you contention that the KKW suddenly shifts focus half way and sticks to the basic kicks of ITF and parts with the scissor kicks and what have you? BY all means, elaborate on this magical transformation. All the taped classes indicate the exact same experience I had, as well as subsequent visits. And funnily enough the taped ITF classes look like how my 5 years have been in that art! Crazy, I know....
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  17. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Not even close to the way it does between ITF and KKW, and not for the same reasons.
     
  18. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    I would also like to add that it sickens me having the dictatorship of North Korea as ITF representatives. ITF is South Korean, regardless of who the current president is. NK learned Taekwondo in the 80s. Their only lineage is a visit from Park Jung Tae.

    Why not have South Koreans perform ITF if you're looking for a legitimate unification, since that's what ITF is.
     
  19. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    If you say so.

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  20. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Again, if you say so. We've been using each other's facilities for quite some time.

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