Yeop Chagi

Discussion in 'General Taekwondo Discussions' started by Gnarlie, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    No problem with questions. It's your reactions to getting answers you don't like that speaks volumes. I don't know why you ask if you're just going to argue about the answers.

    All styles of TKD are better understood now than they have ever been. The martial art gas moved on thanks to the availability of information. You seem so fixated on individual styles and playing them against each other that you really have a huge blind spot.

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  2. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    That's not true. I train ITF. We chamber semi circularly just like in the old days. You claimed that modern kineastetics showed that front chambering is superior to semi circular. That indicates to me clear biases towards your own system

    I am not nearly as proficient or flexible as a few years ago and I did try out both chamber variations back in my "peak" and the practical differences are slim....To the point that I didn't care which one to use. I'm a very explosive practitioner, that's my bread and butter, since my static flexibility was always mediocre, and the old semi circular chambering did not significantly slow me down, which was one of the criticisms labelled against it. I'm quite confident that if there was ever any data on it, the front chambering would be 1% faster and the semi circular 1% more powerful. It cancels each other out from my experience.
     
  3. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    I didn't argue against your criticisms until someone else did. I do argue your pointers about potentially fixing them, as I did to the other guy. I have tried every stretching routine known to man and still cannot kick with open hips. The only thing that results from it is my body protesting and stiffening even more. The problem with relying on forward momentum is that my kicking speed and height deteriorates once my legs get tired, because I can't use my flexibility like many others. So I am well aware of my limitations.
     
  4. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    You are saying that ITF Taekwondo is no better understood today than it was years ago. Pfft.
    No, I didn't. Those are your words, not mine.
    I don't care which one you use either. You are so determined to argue that you are seeing things that aren't there.



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  5. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    This habit you have of asking for advice in two places and arguing two strangers against each other has to stop. Because you lack your own experience, you are unable to coherently and credibly respond. That doesn't mean you have the experience to comprehend and paraphrase what is being said to you - you fail to see that the advice from him and my advice are essentially the same - he's just trying to be diplomatic and I am not.
    Poor attitude for a martial art. All about continuous improvement in small steps. You're focused on instant gratification. A good side kick is a labour of love over a period of many years...not genetic, and not instant.
    So work on them.



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  6. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    The body mechanics of ITF kicks has remaind the same since its inception. It's the exact same chambering and principles. How's that for progress?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  7. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Yes. But the understanding of those mechanics is better now than it ever was. Thanks to the internet, publishing advances, multimedia materials and an established structure of seminars, even the little people can get access to more information than ever before. This means that we are doing thing differently than we would have been 50 years ago, for example.

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  8. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    This is why people still attend seminars.

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  9. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    I guarantee you that the vast majority of old school instructors in ITF teach exactly the same way as in the 80s. The fact that they refuse to adapt their stretching routines against the objections of the students, is pretty telling. Refusing to let go of static stretching is one of those things. Not only is static stretching still part of the syllabus, it isn't even properly prepared to reduce the risk of ligament injury.
     
  10. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Their prerogative. The information is there, and the good international instructors have incorporated it into their training.

    I agree that ITF Taekwon-Do training methods have evolved less than those of other orgs, but still, the core of the syllabus is understood better now than ever - regardless of whether it is right or wrong according to modern science.

    This is what I mean when I say the world has moved on. It's not a good idea to measure modern kicks against old photos and videos, for that reason.



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  11. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    No, it wouldn't, and no, you don't. Your hip and shoulder would be over rotated and you would be kicking toward your back.

    His hip, shoulder and foot are in line.

    Very different mechanics. Very different results.

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  12. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    No. That hip is as open as it needs to be. Also, I've seen his side kick and he starts hip open and closes extremely slightly during the power phase of the kick. This is normal,and doesn't involve the huge recruitment of gluteus and latissimus that your kick does.

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  13. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Then why does it look so stiff? His body posture is terrible for stability. Jong Soo Park cirka 1960 should be flexible enough to not lean like a modern day green belt, with a kick that is not very high.
     
  14. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Because at that time he was still influenced by / practising Kong Soo Do, which had different sidekick mechanics. That's why it's a bad idea to compare modern kicks with old photos.

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  15. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Some you can.. This one is alright in my eyes. Don't know the name of the practitioner.
     

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  16. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    Meh. The point is there was very little consistency back then, whereas now there are common standards out there for those who take the time to educate themselves.

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  17. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    It took a while to etablish technical uniformity. I wonder though if Kong Soo Do had distinct kicking mechanics from the Tang Soo Do orgs because Tang Soo Do guys kick the same way we do. Or if Jong Soo Park simply was a late bloomer. I have seen him in 60s footage and it was nothing near the JSP of the mid 70s ITF demo team.
     
  18. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    Here's 1986 ITF text book side kick. Perfection.

    Who is this gentleman?
     

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  19. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Well-Known Member

    No idea, too pixelly. Agree that the kick is good, though I have moved away from that hand placement. Went on a seminar last weekend, a large portion of which was dedicated to sidekick structure and its applications. Turning the hip too far in is definitely a no-no.

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  20. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Active Member

    The rational is is given here:

    "The arm goes out in a high punch parallel to the leg. The reason behind this is if the kick gets jammed at the chamber, the punching arm covers the ribs against counter punch but also has an opportunity to punch the opponent in the face if they come in close to jam the leg.

    Later at black belt level its done with the arms in guard as an alternative posture. Reason being is that at this point the kicker is supposed to be good enough that they don't get their kick stuffed and can choose what's more appropriate, punch or guard"

    I would wold also argue that arm extention aids the balance distribution crucial for intermediate level.
     

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